Motions to exclude certain topics at Katherine Jackson vs AEG Trial

[ivy]

Both parties have filed their motions to exclude certain topics to be mentioned during trial. The judge will hear the arguments and decide on these motions on March 21 (or later). The following are the summaries of both parties’ motions.

AEG Live

AEG Live states that the jury will decide on 4 narrow issues

1- Whether AEG Live hired Murray
2- Whether Murray was unfit
3- Whether AEG Live had a reason to believe an undue risk of harm would exist due to Murray
4- Whether harm occurred.

Based on this AEG Live asks the judge to exclude the following:

Speculative Damages

The $40 billion damages are now becoming clearer. Each plaintiff (Katherine, Prince, Paris, Blanket) is asking for $50 Million in general damages and $10 Billion in special damages (it brings it to $200 M total in general damages and $40 billion in special damages). It turns out Katherine’s side is speculating Michael’s possible future income and AEG wants this to be excluded as California law says the damages should be “reasonable certain to result in the future” and “possibility or probability” is not enough. AEG says all of these based on casual conversations and wishful thinking and hypothetical scenarios and nothing was certain.

The possible future income sources are
- Possible future tours after TII
- Possible future albums
- Possible future increased on royalties from already released albums
- Possible future film career
- Possible future clothing line
- Possible future appearances
- Possible future purchase of Marvel comics
- Redacted but based on something Tom Barrack said

Jacksons claim Michael would have earned $500 Million a year for the rest of his life and would give 40% of his earnings to Katherine and his kids. AEG states if you do the math to reach to the $40 billion number it would have required Michael to live 200 more years. ( Math : 40% of $500 M a year = $200 Million a year. $200 Million a year times 200 years gives $40 billion).

AEG also mentions that these numbers aren’t realistically possible as Michael’s popularity was down due to child molestation allegations and he hasn’t performed for years. AEG also mentions how Katherine stated during her deposition that Michael did not want to tour anymore but now also claiming lost income from future tours. AEG also lists details of Michael’s past movie projects that never happened, clothing endorsements that ended in lawsuits and so on to demonstrate that there is no certainty that any of these future business projects would have actually happened or be successful. AEG also mention that Marvel was sold for $4.2 billion (meaning Michael could not have afforded to buy it at all).

AEG has no objection to any lost income from TII to be considered in determining damages.

Irrelevant interactions between AEG and Michael

AEG Live states given the 4 issues to be considered at the trial the following is irrelevant: AEG and Michael’s financial bargaining power during negotiations and preparation of the tour, cash advances made to Michael, number of concerts scheduled and AEG firing nanny Grace on Michael’s request.

It turns out Katherine planned to introduce AEG’s and Michael’s financial bargaining power to show AEG had control over Michael. AEG states as the first claim is now dismissed, these matters are irrelevant to the remaining 1 claim and should be excluded. AEG also states that any mention of “control claims” should be excluded. This also includes a request for the exclusion of AEG emails that mention “has to perform or a financial disaster awaits”, “he has no choice, he has to do it he signed a contract” etc.

AEG says if Katherine is allowed to mention these control claims, AEG in return will show that it was Michael’s advisors that approached them for a tour, 3 business managers of Michael looked over and approved tour expenses, it was Michael’s requests that increased the tour expenses and so on.

We learn that during summary judgment Katherine stated that AEG used cash advances to “reel him in”. We also learn that Katherine’s lawyers especially asked questions about a $200,000 cash advance that Phillips took to Michael in a brown paper bag. It seems like Katherine’s side wants to portray these as under the table advances. AEG argues that advances are no longer relevant to the remaining issues and AEG Live states regardless of how they have given Michael advances he has signed receipts for them and they are all properly documented and accounted for.

AEG says the number of shows Michael agreed to perform is irrelevant to the topic that whether AEG hired Murray or not. AEG also want to exclude testimony from Prince that might claim AEG was forcing Michael to do more shows than he want and AEG state that they have counter witnesses that would testify that Michael told them he was excited to perform “50 shows”.

AEG says Gongaware firing nanny Grace at Michael’s order is irrelevant to the matters at hand. They say AEG never employed or paid Grace and Gongaware was given an already prepared letter and just contacted Grace because Michael told him to.

Hypothetical scenarios of cancellation or postponement of TII

Given the remaining single claim AEG Live states that Katherine’s previous arguments of AEG could have saved Michael’s life if they postponed or cancelled the concerts are no longer relevant and should be excluded. AEG also states that according to the contract AEG could not have canceled the concerts on their own, any cancellation required Michael’s permission. AEG states they have evidence that Michael wanted the concerts to continue, he didn’t need time off and he didn’t want them delayed.

AEG also states that Jacksons try to mention these irrelevant matters to create a moral blame on AEG and even go to the media (CNN Alan Duke’s smoking gun story) to hurt their reputation rather than litigating the case.

Michael’s intoxication before O2 press conference

AEG says whether Michael was drunk before O2 press conference or whether AEG knew he was drunk is irrelevant as Michael did not die from alcohol but he died from anesthesia. AEG also states that this press conference happened at least a month before they heard about Murray and there’s no evidence that Murray was at UK that time or provided him medical care before press conference.

We also learn that Jacksons first want to exclude any possible “Michael Jackson is an alcoholic” claims but they later changed their minds.

Murray’s character as it relates to his personal life

AEG Live states given the 4 issues to be considered at the trial whether Murray frequented strip clubs and whether a small part of his debt was child support is irrelevant and should be excluded. (The argument here is that whether a doctor visits strip clubs on his personal time cannot be relevant to whether the doctor will compromise his oath.)

AEG Live and AEG Inc.’s financial condition

AEG Live states given the only claims are Murray’s hiring and there are no punitive damages in this trial to punish AEG, their financials are irrelevant and should be excluded.

Personal relationship between Gongaware and Segal

Gongaware meets Segal during Michael’s History tour. Segal was working for one of Michael’s tour promoters at that time. Later Gongaware and Segal have a romantic relationship. Segal never worked for AEG. In 2009 when Michael was looking for a tour manager, Gongaware recommended her to Michael and Michael who knew her from History tour hired her to be a part of MJJ Productions. AEG argues the personal relationship between Gongaware and Segal is irrelevant to the remaining negligent hiring of Muray claim. Note: Segal’s responsibilities were to arrange housing for Michael in London and arrange his travel.

 

[ivy]

Katherine Jackson

Katherine Jackson wants to exclude the following

Exclude the mention that Katherine and MJ’s kids did not sue Murray

Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG to argue that Katherine could have sued Murray but choose not to because she was looking for a deep pocketed defendant and they want the judge to exclude such claims.

Exclude benefits Katherine and MJ’s kids receive from MJ Estate

Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG to argue that Katherine and MJ’s kids are receiving money from MJ Estate and they will use this to reduce the any amount of damages the jury might award so they want the judge to exclude such claims.

Ps: this motion makes reference to medical insurance benefits in addition to what they get from the Estate.

Exclude marital discord between Katherine and Joe

Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG to introduce evidence that Katherine and Joe have a turbulent or unhealthy marriage and will use this to make Katherine look bad in front of a jury. They want the judge to exclude these.

Exclude the argument that Michael’s siblings have financial problems

Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG try to introduce evidence that Michael’s siblings suffer or have suffered from financial woes and says that this is irrelevant and it should be excluded.

Exclude molestation charges

Katherine’s lawyers state that AEG lawyers have asked during depositions to multiple people about the molestation charges and they expect AEG to mention those to make Michael bad and they want the judge to exclude those.

(Ivy’s note: Molestation charges is mentioned in AEG documents as a reason for lower income level expectations).

Exclude evidence of biological parents of minor kids

Katherine’s lawyers say AEG might try to introduce evidence to cast doubt on the biological parents (both father and mother) of the minor kids and it should be excluded as it is irrelevant.

Exclude that Katherine was kidnapped to Arizona

Katherine’s lawyers say that AEG may try to introduce evidence that Katherine was kidnapped to Arizona to cast the Jackson family in a bad light and it should be excluded as it is irrelevant.

Exclude that Michael Jackson Estate did not file a lawsuit against AEG or anyone else in regards to Michael’s death

Katherine’s lawyers say that they anticipate that AEG will argue that MJ Estate did not join Katherine’s lawsuit to demonstrate that Katherine’s lawsuit lacks merit or based on baseless allegations. They want it to be excluded.

Exclude testimony from David Fournier that Michael tried to deceive him during surgery

Fournier is a nurse anesthetist that provided medical treatment to Michael in 1990s and 2000s. Fournier believes on one or two occasions Michael deceived him by not telling him about a “narcan implant” Michael inserted in his body before surgical procedure Fournier was helping with. Fournier states he believes Michael did not intentionally tell him about the “narcan implant” because he knew Fournier wouldn’t have administered him anesthesia if he knew.

Katherine’s lawyers state they expect AEG to introduce this at trial to show that Michael is a liar and tried to deceive a health professional. They want it to be excluded as it is speculative and irrelevant.




======================================================
March 28 Updated with detailed ruling of the judge

Detailed explanation of what is allowed and what is not allowed. The below is the almost exact wording from the court document. (note laintiffs, defendants and decedent is changed to Katherine Jackson, AEG and Michael Jackson)

AEG

excluded in part - allowed in part - Motion 1 - AEG's financial position

Explanation

- Evidence of AEG's financial condition/ wealth is excluded.
- AEG's expected ticket sales, tour profits are admissible as to damages.
- To the extent AEG seek to preclude Katherine Jackson's arguments regarding financial motive, the motion is denied.

excluded (motion granted) - Motion 2 - Gongaware & Segal's personal relationship

- AEG represented that they will not call Segal to testify in their case.
- However if she testifies, existence of her romantic / personal relationship with Gongaware is admissible on cross examination/impeachment as a potential bias.
- However acts of sexual conduct is are inadmissible even under cross-examination.

excluded in part - allowed in part - Motion 3 - Irrelevant interactions between AEG and Michael

- Katherine Jackson's argument that AEG "controlled" Michael Jackson or had "superior bargaining power" over him are inadmissible.
- 11/24/2008 email admissible. As to a) AEG's involvement in retention and investigation of professionals hired for and by Michael Jackson and b) how that compares to AEG's handling of Murray investigation and retention.
- 01/23/2009 email admissible. As to AEG's strong interest in Michael Jackson's performing as it was vital to tour financial success.
- Phillips deposition re: Tohme Tohme admissible. As to a) AEG's involvement in retention and investigation of professionals hired for and by Michael Jackson and b) how that compares to AEG's handling of Murray investigation and retention.
- 2/27/2009 email admissible. As to a) AEG's strong interest in Michael Jackson's performing as it was vital to tour financial success and b) the pressure exerted on Michael Jackson and the effect this pressure had on Michael Jackson and (ultimately) Murray.
- Production management agreement between AEG and Tohme Tohme admissible to compare Murray's pay and and the importance of Murray relative to Michael Jackson's other tour professionals.
- Cash advances in paper bags inadmissible, irrelevant, prejudice
- 3/15/2009 email : inadmissible hearsay
- 3/25/2009 email admissible as to AEG's knowledge of the physical and emotional toll of 50 shows on Michael Jackson and ultimately how that affected Michael Jackson's condition and Murray's treatment of Michael Jackson
- Gongaware deposition nanny termination inadmissible However likely admissible on cross as Gongaware's ability to fire professionals hired by Michael Jackson.
- 4/19/2009 email inadmissible. However likely admissible on cross as ability to fire professionals hired by Michael Jackson.

excluded (motion granted) - Motion 4 - Hypothetical evidence of TII cancellation or postponement

- inadmissible as undue consumption of time and may call for a legal conclusion - ie contract interpretation as to when or under what conditions the tour or any particular show could be cancelled.
- However the court may reconsider this ruling depending on the presentation of evidence

excluded in part - allowed in part - Motion 5 - Murray's character as it pertains to his personal life

- Email is admissible but the reference to "strip club" must be redacted from the email because the prejudice outweighs its probative value. Relevant is that Murray was unavailable to Michael Jackson at certain times.
- Evidence of Murray's debt whether child support or credit cards etc is relevant and admissible.

deferred - Motion 6 - Speculative Damages

Defer

allowed (motion denied)- Motion 7 - Michael being drunk before 02 Press conference

- Admissible to show AEG's knowledge of Michael Jackson's emotional and dependency issues directly related to the tour.
- Coupled with AEG's executives knowledge of Michael Jackson's drug dependency problems and use of "tour doctors" in the past , this evidence is relevant to foreseeability.

Katherine Jackson

allowed (motion denied) - Motion 1 - Molestation charges

- Molestation charges are admissible as to the damages calculation and (secondarily) as to the issues of Michael Jackson's despondency and drug abuse.
- Court will give a cautionary jury instruction proposed by the parties.

excluded(motion granted) - Motion 2 - Benefits received by KJ after MJ's death

- The purpose of the exclusion of collateral source is to prevent one party from a double recovery (ie collateral source in addition to damages)
- Michael Jackson's estate benefited from his death (it's value increased).
- So if AEG were held responsible for Michael Jackson's death , AEG would receive a windfall if Katherine Jackson+ kids damages were decreased (or offset) by that increase in value to the estate.
- Perhaps this computation (if it can be done at all) is best calculated after trial.

excluded(motion granted) - Motion 3 - Marital discord between Katherine and Joe - non opposed

non opposition.

allowed(motion denied)- Motion 4 - Michael's siblings have or had financial problems

- Gifts from Michael Jackson to his siblings are relevant to the issue of Jackson's damages and for the purposes of cross examination/impeachment of siblings.
- However presentation of the siblings entire finances is irrelevant and presents undue consumption of time.

motion granted - Motion 5 - Allowing electronic presentations on opening statements

- Parties to exchange electronic presentation to be used on opening statements on the morning of the first day of trial.

(ivy's note: as this is merely about using powerpoint during opening statements I'm omitting the rest)

allowed (motion denied) - Motion 6 - David Fournier Testimony

- Michael Jackson's history of hiding drug abuse is relevant to the issue of the likelihood that AEG knew Michael Jackson's drug use and if so the extent of the knowledge.

excluded (motion granted)- Motion 7 - MJ Estate did not sue AEG or anyone else in Michael's death

- Jury is not to speculate whether certain parties are or are not part of the lawsuit.
- Jury is only asked to decide whether AEG before them is liable to the Jacksons.

allowed (motion denied)- Motion 8 - KJ did not file a suit against Murray

- AEG is precluded from pointing out that Murray is not a defendant in the lawsuit (see reason cited at motion 7 above)
- However AEG is allowed to present a comparative fault defense and verdict form.
- AEG is permitted to question Katherine Jackson as to her motive (financial) for filing the lawsuit.
- AEG are not permitted to question minor kids (Prince, Paris and Blanket) as to their "motive" for filing the lawsuit because their motive is irrelevant in that Katherine Jackson, their legal guardian and their guardian ad litem in this lawsuit, made that decision for them and they can only appear / file through her.

excluded (motion granted) - Motion 9 - Biological parents of minor children - non opposed

non opposition

excluded in part - allowed in part -Motion 10 - Katherine being kidnapped to Arizona

- AEG shall not refer to Katherine Jackson's alleged kidnapping.
- However testimony that Katherine Jackson's health was / is deteriorating (and that is why she traveled to Arizona) is relevant to her longevity and damages. To that extent only AEG may introduce testimony concerning her trip to Arizona.

------------------------------------

Document here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/132897760/Detailed-order-on-Motions-in-Limine

[scribd]132897760[/scribd]

 

[Justthefacts]

Narcan implant. I wonder if that is what Frank was talking about in his book? And for the Jacksons to say AEG might try to say PP&B are not Michael's is about as pointless as them saying Michael could be an alcoholic. Oh and uh she does not want her family shown in a bad light but has no problem with Michael being portrayed as a drunk? OK

 

[Petrarose]

1- Whether AEG Live hired Murray
2- Whether Murray was unfit
3- Whether AEG Live had a reason to believe an undue risk of harm would exist due to Murray
4- Whether harm occurred.

It seems that (2) & (4) ^^have already been proved by the Muarry trial.

Then AEG claims : AEG also mentions that these numbers aren’t realistically possible as Michael’s popularity was down due to child molestation allegations and he hasn’t performed for years. Yet they have Randy testify in the muarry trial how the sell out of the show was record breaking, so doesn't that show in the future if Michael wanted to he could make money?

The words AEG want to exclude from the email ( This also includes a request for the exclusion of AEG emails that mention “has to perform or a financial disaster awaits”, “he has no choice, he has to do it he signed a contract” etc.) really show what characters they really are. However, we can't sue someone for being nasty.

Oh and this: We also learn that Jacksons first want to exclude any possible “Michael Jackson is an alcoholic” claims but they later changed their minds. So now if you get drunk before a show the night before, you are an alcoholic. By the way how many diseases does Michael have now?

In spite of my feelings for AEG & their comments, overall I agree with the exclusions.

 

[Justthefacts]

Well as "nasty" as those comments are they are something else, true

 

[Justthefacts]

But here is the thing. Yes if Michael would have done those shows he would have made money. But forty billion dollars? Yes Michael could have made tons of money but forty billion dollars?

 

[ivy]

^^

Do you think Michael could have made $500 Million every year until his death?

They don't oppose to any possible income from TII and that could alone will be hundreds of millions. For example U2 earned $293 Million from 360 world tour, Bon Jovi earned $192 Million from their tour in 2010. But you will also see that these high numbers only happen when the such artists tour, they don't earn anywhere near these numbers if they don't tour.

So a $500 Million a year and every year number would have required Michael to tour non-stop. One minute he's not fit to perform 50 shows and the other minute you are given a scenario that he will be touring non-stop until he's 130 years old. (to earn $40 billion with $500 Million a year he needs to be alive for 80 more years).

 

[Justthefacts]

So in the one out of one side of their mouths Michael is so sick and frail he was crying out for his Father. And out the other side he was so healthy he was going to perform until Jesus came back and by Marvel comics

 

[Petrarose]

My problem with Katherine's exclusions is that some of them seem to be what they think AEG might do, but is there evidence that AEG would do that. At times while reading the exclusions, I got the feeling that they wanted to throw those points out there for the public to view, e.g., the biological issue or maybe I am simple prejudiced against that side. Regardless I agree with most of their exclusions.

I do not agree that the fact that they did not sue Muarry should be excluded. In fact, I think that is a key factor in the case & shows the motivations of the family group.

I agree they should exclude the money from the estate, but not the money from the insurance, because if you win a lawsuit & workers comp was giving you money, workers comp will ask you back for the money which they gave you. I know this is not the same insurance, but if you have to pay back workers comp insurance, why would you be allowed to keep the insurance Katherine is talking about & then still get additional money for the same thing from AEG.

I agree that marital discord is not relevant here. What does that have to do with hiring Muarry.

I agree that molestation should be excluded because it was used as a response to earning claims, and the TII response shows that future Michael projects could generate money.

I agree that the kids biological parents should not be an issue here, but I do not have a feeling that AEG was going to bring that in, so I don't see why Katherine wanted to raise this point, except as a bone to the media.

I agree that granny napping should be excluded, although for entertainment purposes, I would love to hear someone explain that whole thing in a sensible way, because so far what Granny, her lawyers, her kids said are all different.

Ivy no I do not think Michael would make that amount until his death. At least no one thinks that except the Jacksons. However, AEG on one had is saying look how much he was in demand, and on the other hand they are saying the molestation reduced his future earnings. If TII had people registering who could not get tickets, then his future earnings was not that affected by the allegations. His prior earnings before TII may have been. However, he would not make the type of money that the family says.

 

[marc_vivien]

They want to exclude that MJ's siblings are broken? LOL, it's the key factor. MONEY and to feed the cubs.
The Alloco concert was about feeding the cubs

 

[passy001]

Katherine Jackson

Katherine Jackson wants to exclude the following

Exclude the mention that Katherine and MJ’s kids did not sue Murray

Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG to argue that Katherine could have sued Murray but choose not to because she was looking for a deep pocketed defendant and they want the judge to exclude such claims.

This cannot be excluded. it shows motive. Remember Murray is the KILLER.

Exclude benefits Katherine and MJ’s kids receive from MJ Estate

Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG to argue that Katherine and MJ’s kids are receiving money from MJ Estate and they will use this to reduce the any amount of damages the jury might award so they want the judge to exclude such claims.

Ps: this motion makes reference to medical insurance benefits in addition to what they get from the Estate.

That can be excluded.

Exclude marital discord between Katherine and Joe



Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG to introduce evidence that Katherine and Joe have a turbulent or unhealthy marriage and will use this to make Katherine look bad in front of a jury. They want the judge to exclude these.

This is a 50/50.
The part where Joe is actually blaming KJ can be included.

Exclude the argument that Michael’s siblings have financial problems


Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG try to introduce evidence that Michael’s siblings suffer or have suffered from financial woes and says that this is irrelevant and it should be excluded.

That can't be excluded. It shows motive.

Exclude molestation charges

Katherine’s lawyers state that AEG lawyers have asked during depositions to multiple people about the molestation charges and they expect AEG to mention those to make Michael bad and they want the judge to exclude those.

(Ivy’s note: Molestation charges is mentioned in AEG documents as a reason for lower income level expectations).

Unfortunately it will be included. This bit shows how badly MJ has become almost unmarketable over the years as a result of this mess.

Exclude evidence of biological parents of minor kids

Katherine’s lawyers say AEG might try to introduce evidence to cast doubt on the biological parents (both father and mother) of the minor kids and it should be excluded as it is irrelevant.

This should be excluded

Exclude that Katherine was kidnapped to Arizona

Katherine’s lawyers say that AEG may try to introduce evidence that Katherine was kidnapped to Arizona to cast the Jackson family in a bad light and it should be excluded as it is irrelevant.

This should be included. it forms part of the motive how the family is scheming in all directions to get money.

Exclude that Michael Jackson Estate did not file a lawsuit against AEG or anyone else in regards to Michael’s death

Katherine’s lawyers say that they anticipate that AEG will argue that MJ Estate did not join Katherine’s lawsuit to demonstrate that Katherine’s lawsuit lacks merit or based on baseless allegations. They want it to be excluded.

This should be included as well. after all the Estate is MJ.

Exclude testimony from David Fournier that Michael tried to deceive him during surgery

Fournier is a nurse anesthetist that provided medical treatment to Michael in 1990s and 2000s. Fournier believes on one or two occasions Michael deceived him by not telling him about a “narcan implant” Michael inserted in his body before surgical procedure Fournier was helping with. Fournier states he believes Michael did not intentionally tell him about the “narcan implant” because he knew Fournier wouldn’t have administered him anesthesia if he knew.

Katherine’s lawyers state they expect AEG to introduce this at trial to show that Michael is a liar and tried to deceive a health professional. They want it to be excluded as it is speculative and irrelevant.

This is a 50/50.

 

[Tygger]

The $40 billion damages are now becoming clearer. Each plaintiff (Katherine, Prince, Paris, Blanket) is asking for $50 Million in general damages and $10 Billion in special damages (it brings it to $200 M total in general damages and $40 billion in special damages).

AEG has no objection to any lost income from TII to be considered in determining damages.

I'm not sure how the special damages are being computed but, the general damages are clear.

It seems the minimum plaintiffs are requesting as damages is $200 Million.

It seems the minimum defendants are willing to pay out (through a settlement or damages) is most likely $102 Million. Restitution was to be proven to be this amount for TII's lost income during the criminal trial. It seems the defendants would not be opposed to paying the restitution amount the convicted criminal was unable to.

 

[soulmum]

I reckon if AEG offer $20M as settlement the Jacksons will take the money and run. If there is no settlement I cannot see how they could win.

 

[shelly_webster]

Narcan implant. I wonder if that is what Frank was talking about in his book? And for the Jacksons to say AEG might try to say PP&B are not Michael's is about as pointless as them saying Michael could be an alcoholic. Oh and uh she does not want her family shown in a bad light but has no problem with Michael being portrayed as a drunk? OK

What is a Narcan implant?

 

[Bubs]

So in the one out of one side of their mouths Michael is so sick and frail he was crying out for his Father. And out the other side he was so healthy he was going to perform until Jesus came back and by Marvel comics

Well said!

What is a Narcan implant?

Some info about it here
http://drugrehabranch.crchealth.com/treatment-programs/depot-narcan-will-it-work/

 

[Bubs]

"AEG says all of these based on casual conversations and wishful thinking and hypothetical scenarios and nothing was certain."

I agree with wishful thinking.

---------------------------------------
"Jacksons claim Michael would have earned $500 Million a year for the rest of his life and would give 40% of his earnings to Katherine and his kids. AEG states if you do the math to reach to the $40 billion number it would have required Michael to live 200 more years. ( Math : 40% of $500 M a year = $200 Million a year. $200 Million a year times 200 years gives $40 billion)."

Did MJ give 40% of his earning to Katherine while alive? The answer is no and I think AEG can prove it too, re Katherine's deposition how much MJ supported her.

------------------------------------
"AEG also mentions that these numbers aren’t realistically possible as Michael’s popularity was down due to child molestation allegations and he hasn’t performed for years. AEG also mentions how Katherine stated during her deposition that Michael did not want to tour anymore but now also claiming lost income from future tours. AEG also lists details of Michael’s past movie projects that never happened, clothing endorsements that ended in lawsuits and so on to demonstrate that there is no certainty that any of these future business projects would have actually happened or be successful. AEG also mention that Marvel was sold for $4.2 billion (meaning Michael could not have afforded to buy it at all)."

I agree with this.
Sickening that Katherine knew MJ didn't want to our, but she had no problem to go pestering him to do tour with brothersuke:

-------------------------
"AEG also states that Jacksons try to mention these irrelevant matters to create a moral blame on AEG and even go to the media (CNN Alan Duke’s smoking gun story) to hurt their reputation rather than litigating the case."

I agree with them.
---------------------
We also learn that Jacksons first want to exclude any possible “Michael Jackson is an alcoholic” claims but they later changed their minds.

Of course they did. Not only Michael was stark raving druggie, now he is alcoholic too, if it serves Jackson's purpose.
Funnily enough, all that didn't bother them when they were pestering MJ to do tour with brothers, or any other project with family. Funnily enough, after being classified as druggie and alcoholic by Jackson's, Michael still would have been able to earn $500 million/year :bugeyed

--------------------------------------------------------

Murray’s character as it relates to his personal life
AEG Live states given the 4 issues to be considered at the trial whether Murray frequented strip clubs and whether a small part of his debt was child support is irrelevant and should be excluded. (The argument here is that whether a doctor visits strip clubs on his personal time cannot be relevant to whether the doctor will compromise his oath.)

Katherine should have asked Joe. He too is guilty of all those.

 

[Bubs]

Exclude the mention that Katherine and MJ’s kids did not sue Murray

This should be included as it is important to jury to know why this case is in trial.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG to argue that Katherine could have sued Murray but choose not to because she was looking for a deep pocketed defendant and they want the judge to exclude such claims.

Should be included, as it is true.

--------------------------------------

Exclude marital discord between Katherine and Joe
Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG to introduce evidence that Katherine and Joe have a turbulent or unhealthy marriage and will use this to make Katherine look bad in front of a jury. They want the judge to exclude these.

I'm not sure if jury can take that, trial would last for ever if they go there.
So they don't want to portray Katherine bad in front of jury, but no problem portraying Michael more than bad in front of jury!

------------------------------------------------------------------

Exclude the argument that Michael’s siblings have financial problems
Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG try to introduce evidence that Michael’s siblings suffer or have suffered from financial woes and says that this is irrelevant and it should be excluded.

It should be included as that is the very reason for trial. All of them needs money and they see AEG as the mean to get it.

-------------------------------

--------------------------------------------

Exclude that Katherine was kidnapped to Arizona

Katherine’s lawyers say that AEG may try to introduce evidence that Katherine was kidnapped to Arizona to cast the Jackson family in a bad light and it should be excluded as it is irrelevant.

As someone said it before, this should be included for entertainment value.

-------------------------------------------------


Exclude testimony from David Fournier that Michael tried to deceive him during surgery

Fournier is a nurse anesthetist that provided medical treatment to Michael in 1990s and 2000s. Fournier believes on one or two occasions Michael deceived him by not telling him about a “narcan implant” Michael inserted in his body before surgical procedure Fournier was helping with. Fournier states he believes Michael did not intentionally tell him about the “narcan implant” because he knew Fournier wouldn’t have administered him anesthesia if he knew.

Katherine’s lawyers state they expect AEG to introduce this at trial to show that Michael is a liar and tried to deceive a health professional. They want it to be excluded as it is speculative and irrelevant.

I understand that they want this to be excluded as it poses a serious risk to Jackson's case.

Nothing what Jackson's want to exclude is made for sake of protecting Michael. All of above is done to protect the case, Jackson's themselves but NOT Michael.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Whats a narcan implant got to do with giving anesthetic?

seems to me the jackson famiy were the source for mj being an alcoholic stories in all the uk tabs in the months before. Vile ppl

 

[Bubs]

I wonder if Katherine reads any papers? Does she fully understand how this trial is going to effect on herself, her family, Michael and most importantly PPB?

I know that after the trial, the estate will be facing an enormous task to trying to recover Michael's profile from the mud that it has been buried under.

@I agree Elusive.
They were the ones selling interviews left and right to UK rags after MJ died, and before they had to hide from MJ so they sold those stories as from "source".
They are more than vile, I'm running out descriptions.

 

[Daryll748]

:lol: This is exactly quite fun to read :tease:

Sowwy but all this 'mud throwing' is really 'ridiculous' and in fact :hilarious: too

I think KJ & Cubs have got TOO much TIME on their hands if they fill their lives with Interviews, leaks, ridiculous and slanderous suits, dragging Michael through the mud, accusing the wrong party, inventing stupid claims :smilerolleyes:

NOW, if they would ALL have a JOB :cheeky: then they would first lack the TIME for these 'ridiculous' claims and second have the 'dough' :yes:
I thought Mother was 'raising' or even 'Jacksonizing' PPB... Must be an 'easy' job if you have all this time left to make a fool of yourself too :sigh:

Ah, well... Of course Mother doesn't 'realize' that she's digging her own grave with these :shutup: suit...

Denial is such a state of Bliss, didn't you know? :cheeky:

 

[Vici]

I wonder if AEG will mention the AllGood concert in which MJ was gonna perform with his siblings.

 

[passy001]

I wonder if AEG will mention the AllGood concert in which MJ was gonna perform with his siblings.

Oh that's a good one. Oddly enough I've not seen AEG mentioning it.

 

[gerryevans]

They should not have gone with the lack of popularity angle AT ALL. Not only because of his historical sell out of the O2 and their incessant bragging about it, but because of world reaction to his death. Over 30 million in the states alone watched his memorial on broadcast television and worldwide including the net, that figure tallied hundreds of millions. Their arithematic on why $40 billion was unrealistic was sufficient.

 

[Petrarose]

:lol: This is exactly quite fun to read :tease:

Sowwy but all this 'mud throwing' is really 'ridiculous' and in fact :hilarious: too

You know I agree with you. It is a list of let's see who can say something negative about Michael best, while pretending it is what the other side wants to do. Both sides are also using the exclusions for a way of getting negative information of Michael out, so that the jury & media will think this guy had so much problems that he really would die anyway, which is what AEG claimed before. Michael really needs some flowers at this time.

Gerryevans your post: They should not have gone with the lack of popularity angle AT ALL. Not only because of his historical sell out of the O2 and their incessant bragging about it, but because of world reaction to his death. Over 30 million in the states alone watched his memorial on broadcast television and worldwide including the net, that figure tallied hundreds of millions. Their arithematic on why $40 billion was unrealistic was sufficient. I am with you 100%, and again that was put in to place some doubt on Michael's ability to perform, attract & make money. Why hurt a man if the arithmatic alone works.

 

[ivy]

I'm not sure how the special damages are being computed but, the general damages are clear.

It seems the minimum plaintiffs are requesting as damages is $200 Million.

It seems the minimum defendants are willing to pay out (through a settlement or damages) is most likely $102 Million. Restitution was to be proven to be this amount for TII's lost income during the criminal trial. It seems the defendants would not be opposed to paying the restitution amount the convicted criminal was unable to.

minimum? and not opposed to paying $102 Million? There's nothing to suggest that.

It's just if Katherine's damages numbers stand, AEG is looking to a maximum of $40.2 Billion verdict (in the event they lose), however if the speculative damages aren't allowed they are looking to anywhere between $100 million to $300 Million. That significantly changes the lawsuit.

However this reduction doesn't mean they are willing to pay it. Any settlement would generally only be the half of the maximum amount (such as $50 Million if the maximum damages are $100 Million) or they can still argue that they don't share any responsibility or at least share partial responsibility to reduce the amount the jury might award.

 

[passy001]

They should not have gone with the lack of popularity angle AT ALL. Not only because of his historical sell out of the O2 and their incessant bragging about it, but because of world reaction to his death. Over 30 million in the states alone watched his memorial on broadcast television and worldwide including the net, that figure tallied hundreds of millions. Their arithematic on why $40 billion was unrealistic was sufficient.

But before MJ died who was buying his music? not many. It's easy to prove that. all AEG has to do is ask sony for the figures between 2003 and 2009 (before his death).

His popularity at that time was worst. plus, mj was mentally frail. the trial had a huge toll on him. hearing people falsely accusing in court for 4 months is not a joke. that stuff really broke his spirit. and I don't blame him.

his finances was also getting at its worst. he was losing neverland. sony was constantly on his arse looking to snatch his 50% share of sony/atv as MJ was struggling with debt.

he was surrounded by the wrong people, extremely incompetent and charlatans such as raymond baine, tohme tohme, prince of bahrain, and the list goes on.

in short, life sucked in the eyes of MJ.

 

[LastTear]

Purely out of interest, if KJ wins or if there was a settlement would the amount that the estate has made and paid out on probate and to KJ etc over the last 4 years be deducted?

 

[passy001]

minimum? and not opposed to paying $102 Million? There's nothing to suggest that.

It's just if Katherine's damages numbers stand, AEG is looking to a maximum of $40.2 Billion verdict (in the event they lose), however if the speculative damages aren't allowed they are looking to anywhere between $100 million to $300 Million. That significantly changes the lawsuit.

However this reduction doesn't mean they are willing to pay it. Any settlement would generally only be the half of the maximum amount (such as $50 Million if the maximum damages are $100 Million) or they can still argue that they don't share any responsibility or at least share partial responsibility to reduce the amount the jury might award.

even $ 100m is way too much considering that it's only one claim left, one would expect that damage amount to be considerably low at most $20m and not more. Murray is the convicted KILLER and that is a huge factor.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

I would hope the estate would ask for the korean money etc back. but considering how imo theypander to kj i doubt they will bother. heck they will no doubt pay lawyers to crap on mj memory ie kjs lawyers

 

[Petrarose]

But before MJ dies who was buying his music? not many. It's easy to prove that. all AEG has to do is ask sony for the figures between 2003 and 2009 (before his death).

.

I always feel that the money the family is asking for is what could have been made IF HE DID NOT DIE, so to me the focus should be on his impact when he out sold the O2 and then what this impact would led to in the future. Not that few bought his albums before 09. He willingly chose not to perform. It is not that he tried tours, made clothing, bought a comic publication & had no customers. To me, the mere fact that O2 generated such a response, shows that going forward he would have made substantial money again, and this is the money the family is asking for--what he would have earned from 09 FORWARD. One of my clients just had a settlement from an insurance because he was hurt by a van from another company which damaged his spine. He can't sit long or stand long. They took into consideration not the weed he smokes everyday which would damage him anyway, but how much he would have made at his job until his death + what he had to pay his attorney + the money he had to pay back to workers comp + the money he had to pay medicaid for his continued treatment. The result was he got 700, 000. The comany wanted to settle for $300,000, but he went to court and the jury awarded the $700,000. So my thing is if Michael was going to make X amount for TII, they should use that as a benchmark of what he would make in the future since technically that was his last gig/job & not use the allegations. Of course the family's amount is ridiculous anyway, but I know AEG threw that in to show the uselessness of Michael in order to help their case.

Anyway the more I hear what comes from AEG's lawyer's mouth and the family's side, the more I detest these people.