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MJs best songwriting

MJs songwriting flex?

  • Earth Song

    Votes: 9 37.5%

  • Little Susie

    Votes: 2 8.3%

  • Will You Be There

    Votes: 5 20.8%

  • Make a Case for another pick

    Votes: 8 33.3%
  • Total voters
    24
Billie Jean.

Since we're talking Pulitzer prize, it has to be BJ, imo. Forget the video, forget Motown 25. Just the song all by itself, nothing else is needed. I'm not going to actually 'make a case' for it bc I'm crap at writing about music. f&m is really good at that, I'm not. But for me, BJ is The One. Just the first 27/28 seconds alone, before Michael even starts singing, he's nailed it, imo.
 
zinniabooklover said:
Ngl, choosing BJ over WBSS was a nightmare. I'll probably never recover, lol. :ROFLMAO:
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Not particularly about the songwriting but what I like most is that it is one of his first angry songs but he performs it playfully instead of strained like he would from the 90s onwards. I think how he uses his voice here is much more interesting and genius than on lets say Why You Wanna Trip On Me. i also think purely lyrically he has interesting things to say here without the topic being completely straightforward. He used to be a much more subtle lyricist early on in his career. The composition is also just very imaginative. When it threatens to lose steam the African chants come up and it is exactly this segment that turns the song immortal.
Thriller was just bursting with good ideas.
 
filmandmusic said:
Not particularly about the songwriting but what I like most is that it is one of his first angry songs but he performs it playfully instead of strained like he would from the 90s onwards. I think how he uses his voice here is much more interesting and genius than on lets say Why You Wanna Trip On Me. i also think purely lyrically he has interesting things to say here without the topic being completely straightforward. He used to be a much more subtle lyricist early on in his career. The composition is also just very imaginative. When it threatens to lose steam the African chants come up and it is exactly this segment that turns the song immortal.
Thriller was just bursting with good ideas.
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All of this is why I really wanted to nominate WBSS - although I did spend ages wrestling with the idea of Who Is It. In the end I let that one go bc too much repetition at the end. But it nearly made it!

Everything you've said about WBSS I agree with 1000% but, as a piece of sonic art, I think BJ just pips all the other contenders I had in mind. It's a Pulitzer prize so I think it needs that touch of immortality.

filmandmusic said:
[...] I think how he uses his voice here is much more interesting and genius than on lets say Why You Wanna Trip On Me.
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🥳

filmandmusic said:
i also think purely lyrically he has interesting things to say here without the topic being completely straightforward.
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And he doesn't turn it into a polemic even though it's all deadly serious stuff. Awesome piece of work! 😲
 
@zinniabooklover I could have said the same about Billie Jean lol

On WBSS I like how he manages to sound annoyed or even disgusted (the parts on Billie Jean) on some parts and then very convincing on his stance on other parts (the part about the babies). The way he pronounces his lyrics evoke a lot more feeling than just shouting angrily. It feels to me we learn a lot more about his opinions on this song than on any of his other songs.

It’s a different topic and song but his opening line in the TWYMMF video is similar, the way he pronounces that line immediately sets the stakes, the girl from from then on knows he means business and he is not playing around like the other fools on the street.

I only had 3 contenders and they were WBSS, BJ and BI
 
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filmandmusic said:
@zinniabooklover I could have said the same about Billie Jean lol
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:love:

filmandmusic said:
On WBSS I like how he manages to sound annoyed or even disgusted (the parts on Billie Jean) on some parts and then very convincing on his stance on other parts (the part about the babies). The way he pronounces his lyrics evoke a lot more feeling than just shouting angrily. It feels to me we learn a lot more about his opinions on this song than on any of his other songs.
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Exactly so. His storytelling ability is brilliant. And, yes, the insight this song gives us into Michael and what he really thinks ... amazing!

filmandmusic said:
[...] I only had 3 contenders and they were WBSS, BJ and BI
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I had 3 serious contenders. I did try to get Beat It into contention but couldn't quite make it work even though it's fabulous and I love it to bits. Went round and round with Is It Scary and Little Susie but that didn't go anywhere. It was really all about Who Is It, WBSS and BJ. Spent ages with Who Is It, desperately wanted WBSS to be 'The One' but BJ has that touch of magic. I just couldn't say no.
 
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If we’re talking lyrics, “Is It Scary” is absolutely otherworldly, particularly the bridge. In my opinion, without doubt his finest and most transparent work.

Musically, “Earth Song” has a strong case. But I would also argue in favor of “Black or White,” which I feel is one of the best genre hybrids I’ve ever heard. Pop rock, new jack swing, hip hop, country, synth-pop, hair metal, funk—all in one without sounding like a mess. I cannot fathom how anyone could come up with something like that.
 
Just Good Friends ! Oh, no, sorry, MJ didn't write it.

--> Is It Scary .

Maybe also... there's something about Dream Away but since I haven't fully understood the lyrics yet.
 
AlwaysThere said:
But I would also argue in favor of “Black or White,” which I feel is one of the best genre hybrids I’ve ever heard. Pop rock, new jack swing, hip hop, country, synth-pop, hair metal, funk—all in one without sounding like a mess. I cannot fathom how anyone could come up with something like that.
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Yep BoW is a pop masterpiece, it isn’t quite getting the recognition it deserves in terms of streaming numbers. It is without doubt one of his catchiest pieces
 
Hands down, it gotta be 'Is It Scary' !
Michael put his last 10+ years of harassment by the media into this song. Every verse builds upon another and the song gets stronger and stronger until it explodes near the end, where he is more shouting than singing!
It's a lyrical masterpiece in every sense with verses like:

''It's you who's taunting me
'Cause you're wanting me
To be the stranger in the night
Am I amusing you or just confusing you?
Am I the beast you visualized?''

Or especially:

''Masquerade the heart
Is to hide a hurting soul
Just not what you seek of me
Can the heart reveal the proof?
Like a mirror reveals the truth?
See the evil one is you''

This song really shows how exceptional of a songwriter Michael really was and how well he could lay down feelings to a beat. 'Is It Scary' is no mere song, it's a feeling, an experience and he managed to encapsulate that to perfection
 
Interesting answers for a lot of picks I don't quite agree with, but definitely see the reasons why.

I think Smooth Criminal is an easy win, if we're going for straight fantastical storytelling.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Interesting answers for a lot of picks I don't quite agree with, but definitely see the reasons why.

I think Smooth Criminal is an easy win, if we're going for straight fantastical storytelling.
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It's a Pulitzer, though! Serious stuff. The songwriting is more important than the lyrics, imo, for such a prestigious songwriting prize. Obviously the entire song (music and lyrics) is a complete unit but I definitely gave the song more weight than the lyrics. That's just me, though. Other people would approach it differently.
 
I agree that Is It Scary is due some international recognition beyond the fanbase.
I admire the whispery breathy vocals in the verses and I really like that build up going crescendo before each chorus with the banging on the piano/keyboard whatever it is. Michael’s agressive singing on the choruses fits this particular song. The ghostly choir sounds are brilliant too. There is a lot of justified anger in his voice here. The song is like a heavy storm building up and after it passes the song slowly dies out and peace remains.

It just makes me wonder why it was necessary to make Threatened a couple of years later because the ending to IIS makes it feel like MJ finally came to peace with it all and was ready to move on from this subject. Threatened really is MJ almost becoming the monster that he never wanted to be seen as, it makes no sense to me. Is Is Scary is clever, threatened is nasty.
 
zinniabooklover said:
It's a Pulitzer, though! Serious stuff. The songwriting is more important than the lyrics, imo, for such a prestigious songwriting prize. Obviously the entire song (music and lyrics) is a complete unit but I definitely gave the song more weight than the lyrics. That's just me, though. Other people would approach it differently.
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No, I think the lyrics specifically is what's significant at times. But really, none of it is significant. In isolation.

There are no set criteria for the judging of the Prizes. The definitions of each category (see How to Enter or Administration page) are the only guidelines. It is left up to the nominating juries and the Pulitzer Prize Board to determine exactly what makes a work "distinguished."

Here's why Kendrick Lamar won one:


Recording released on April 14, 2017, a virtuosic song collection unified by its vernacular authenticity and rhythmic dynamism that offers affecting vignettes capturing the complexity of modern African-American life.

"Storytelling has been Lamar’s greatest skill and most primary mission, to put into (lots of) words what it's like to grow up as he did—to articulate, in human terms, the intimate specifics of daily self-defense from your surroundings. Somehow, he’s gotten better."
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
No, I think the lyrics specifically is what's significant at times. But really, none of it is significant. In isolation.

There are no set criteria for the judging of the Prizes. The definitions of each category (see How to Enter or Administration page) are the only guidelines. It is left up to the nominating juries and the Pulitzer Prize Board to determine exactly what makes a work "distinguished."

Here's why Kendrick Lamar won one:


Recording released on April 14, 2017, a virtuosic song collection unified by its vernacular authenticity and rhythmic dynamism that offers affecting vignettes capturing the complexity of modern African-American life.

"Storytelling has been Lamar’s greatest skill and most primary mission, to put into (lots of) words what it's like to grow up as he did—to articulate, in human terms, the intimate specifics of daily self-defense from your surroundings. Somehow, he’s gotten better."
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oh, I've seen all of this. I think that's why I worked out what my own criteria would be, knowing it wouldn't necessarily match how anyone else was judging their choices but it's all fine, it's all acceptable. But I like that. I like the diversity and how unpredictable it's been. I think this thread has been more wide-ranging than this type of convo usually is.
 
filmandmusic said:
I agree that Is It Scary is due some international recognition beyond the fanbase.
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I've said it before, Is It Scary and Little Susie are masterpieces and are both like mini-operas. They both deserve wider recognition, imo.

filmandmusic said:
I admire the whispery breathy vocals in the verses and I really like that build up going crescendo before each chorus with the banging on the piano/keyboard whatever it is. Michael’s agressive singing on the choruses fits this particular song. The ghostly choir sounds are brilliant too. There is a lot of justified anger in his voice here. The song is like a heavy storm building up and after it passes the song slowly dies out and peace remains.
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:love:

filmandmusic said:
It just makes me wonder why it was necessary to make Threatened a couple of years later because the ending to IIS makes it feel like MJ finally came to peace with it all and was ready to move on from this subject. Threatened really is MJ almost becoming the monster that he never wanted to be seen as, it makes no sense to me. Is Is Scary is clever, threatened is nasty.
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I think it's fine for artists to revisit a particular subject. Novelists do it all the time.
 
@zinniabooklover sure but for me the tone of threatened is completely wrong and I think trying to outdo the Vincent Price segment on Thriller was just foolish. It’s Michael just running in circles devoid of new ideas. I’m not blaming him for that every artists goes through those patches, it is not my cup of tea.
 
filmandmusic said:
@zinniabooklover sure but for me the tone of threatened is completely wrong and I think trying to outdo the Vincent Price segment on Thriller was just foolish.
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Yeah, that bit doesn't quite work, I agree.

filmandmusic said:
It’s Michael just running in circles devoid of new ideas. I’m not blaming him for that every artists goes through those patches, it is not my cup of tea.
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:(
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
"Storytelling has been Lamar’s greatest skill and most primary mission, to put into (lots of) words what it's like to grow up as he did—to articulate, in human terms, the intimate specifics of daily self-defense from your surroundings. Somehow, he’s gotten better."
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This is starting to annoy me now, lol. :ROFLMAO:
 
filmandmusic said:
@zinniabooklover sure but for me the tone of threatened is completely wrong and I think trying to outdo the Vincent Price segment on Thriller was just foolish. It’s Michael just running in circles devoid of new ideas. I’m not blaming him for that every artists goes through those patches, it is not my cup of tea.
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It's 2000s Thriller okay. It's tongue in cheek and it's genuine fun. It's not supposed to "outdo" anything. MJ didn't even write Thriller so it's really his own version.
 
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