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Michael's Aptitude: Nature vs Nurture

Foxy..

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Aptitude - An inherent ability

Just being one of those days, I have been deep in thought about Michael Jackson's talent, or as I have phrased, his aptitude. Collectively, and as Michael fans, the general consensus is known and appreciated that Michael is possibly the most gifted person who walks the planet today. This is apparent from his success within the music and film industries as a pioneer and an artist.

Can it be argued that Michael's talent is something that has been nurtured into his life, from strict perfection in his singing and dancing administered by his father? Or is it something more, can you be born with talent and you simply need to realise that aptitude to be able to work and perfect it?

If it is something Michael was born with, the amazing ability to sing and dance and progress that into success we have seen with his career, then can it be argued that others have an inherent ability which remains undiscovered for their entire life? Could there be or have been talents that are on a par with, or even better than Michael's, but lye unexposed because of a lack of personal ambition or because that opportunity has been quashed? That point leads me to Historic events such as The World wars, Vietnam and The Holocaust. How many people were lost during those times and events who had amazing abilities that have been unjustly extinguished?

Has there ever been someone as talented as Michael Jackson? Will there ever be someone else as talented as Michael Jackson? Discovered or Undiscovered?
 
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I think Michael's talents are God given and he had the great opportunity to display them at such young age thanks to his parents interest in it, but even if his parents (aka Joe) wouldn't have pushed him like they did he still would have made it sooner or later. I don't think that a person with that talent can go unnoticed, when someon has talent like Michael has, it exudes from them, it's apparent to anyone who comes in contact with them, that's why I doubt that there may be people as talented as he is that weren't 'discovered' so to speak.
 
Michael has most definitely had an advantage over other "talented" people, in his life.

Firstly, let's take the era he grew up in. This was an era where peformers were performers. They took their craft seriously. There was no soulja boy, there was no J-lo (lol). Only James Browns, Jimi Hendrix(es), Janis Joplins, Aretha Franklins, The Supremes, Stevie Wonders, Earth Wind & Fire, etcetera it goes on and on.

Secondly, look at who Michael was so fortunate to grow up with. Look at the people that surrounded him in his life in his younger years. Diana Ross, Quincie Jones, Berry Gordy, etcetera etcetera. He learned how to sing, dance, and compose songs from such talented people as these.

He was surrounded by many very talented people who had honed their craft, and he took so many elements from other people and put them all together to make his own.

And of course, I couldn't leave out...his father. His father pushed him and his brothers to a breaking point. But in the end, it benefited him/them. His father definitely plays a role in the development of his talent.

All of this definitely gives Michael an advantage over other average/minimally talented people. I do not believe that, if it weren't for these circumstances, Michael would have been AS GOOD as he ever was and is now, but I believe that he would have been a generally artistically gifted person, like many other people. The only thing is, he had the opportunity to have his talent sculpted and perfected by many influences.
 
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It's both. And there is no way one can separate the two factors to say which is 'dominant.'

One can have heaps of talent, but then slack off and not develop it to full potential. And conversely, one can work really hard, and still not have what it takes to 'go far'.

So MJ is blessed with immense innate abilities, but he has also honed them through yeeeeears of hard work, study, rehearsal and practice. Put the two together, and you get a phenom like MJ. And yes, personal ambition and free will have a big part in it too. He chooses to do what he does with his talents. His upbringing certainly is a big factor in his development, but he doesn't have to continue striving. But he does. Cuz he's Michael Freakin' Jackson! :yes:
 
in history i would say leonardo da vinci was on par with Michael Jackson as far as having many and varied talents. Not only ws he a great artist, but he was also an inventor and scientist.

Sometimes I wonder if Stevie Wonder wasnt blind if he wouldnt be on par with Michael s the total package because I think he is the one person who could challnge Michael's status as the king of pop if you look at his total body of work musically versus Michael's. But of course he cant perform.
 
Absolutely both. If he wasn't born with natural talent and vision and determination on his own as well, then he would be comparable to his siblings. As wonderful as they all are, I am sure, their abilities just do not compare to his abilities (from what I've seen...and it must be difficult living in his shadow). Though Janet has done very well and I have to commend her for working at being competitive with even him. That takes guts and determination to even try (I love her music and dancing though). She has vision and she is uniquely her own style (as I see it) with some similarities of course. They do come from the same family after all.

The strict upbringing and discipline was also a strong factor in his success. He wasn't blowing hot air when he said that his father is a genius to be able to take them where he did and get them fine tuned.

I have a very talented daughter in singing and dancing ability but unfortunately I haven't a clue how to help her with it, and we both are also much less driven in that regard than Mr. Joseph Jackson and Michael Jackson. She already has fallen short of what she could have accomplished if put in that same rigorous training that Michael has had and had the same determination as well. Though if she choses, she could still do something with it but without that backing in discipline and training, she won't reach the same standard that he has (I think).

I believe that it is possible for another to be as talented and accomplish as much, but I don't believe it will be someone who follows his path, it would be someone who takes what they learn and know from those who have gone before them, and makes it their own path, pushing beyond what has been accomplished in the past into new areas.

edit: Goldie yeah, thumbs up to the renaissance man eh?
 
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So from the responses the general consensus is that Michael was born with ability, but that ability was nurtured into perfection through his upbringing and who he was influenced by.

I am not sure weather I can believe that you are born with talent or not. I think we born almost equally, with each person taking in small things throughout growth, education and inspiration, thus changing a person into what they are. I think that Michael was born into a family and parenthood of talent and dedication for the entertainment arts.

I would disagree that Stevie Wonder isn't able to be as talented as someone else because of a loss of sight as a sense. His music and talent are beyond this world and his sight doesn't have an ounce to do whether he can 'perform' or not. You watch Stevie put on a show and you will be blown away, even if he does just sit at a piano, a drum kit, a harmonica, a synthesizer and sing. His musical ability is unparalleled in my opinion.

In regard to other parts of the post. Does it make you sad to think that so much ability has been lost through pointless extinguishing of peoples talent, weather that be from lack of support from others or in circumstances mentioned above resulting in loss of life?

Is Michael the most talented person to have lived? I have seen one comparison on here, that being Leonardo Da Vinci. I would personally compare people like Stevie Wonder and so on..
 
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^(foxy) I think that certain people are born with characteristics/traits that would make them a better suit for a certain type of lifestyle/career.

For instance, there are nine (maybe more) "types" of intelligence--which I believe has a lot to do with genetics. I included the descriptions and bolded the artistic types of intelligence that Michael obviously has.

1. Naturalist Intelligence (“Nature Smart”)

2. Musical Intelligence (“Musical Smart”)

Musical intelligence is the capacity to discern pitch, rhythm, timbre, and tone. This intelligence enables us to recognize, create, reproduce, and reflect on music, as demonstrated by composers, conductors, musicians, vocalist, and sensitive listeners. Interestingly, there is often an affective connection between music and the emotions; and mathematical and musical intelligences may share common thinking processes. Young adults with this kind of intelligence are usually singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss.

3. Logical-Mathematical Intelligence (Number/Reasoning Smart)
4. Existential Intelligence (*Sensitivity and capacity to tackle deep questions about human existence)
5. Interpersonal Intelligence (People Smart”)

6. Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence (“Body Smart”)

Bodily kinesthetic intelligence is the capacity to manipulate objects and use a variety of physical skills. This intelligence also involves a sense of timing and the perfection of skills through mind–body union. Athletes, dancers, surgeons, and craftspeople exhibit well-developed bodily kinesthetic intelligence.

7. Linguistic Intelligence (Word Smart)

Linguistic intelligence is the ability to think in words and to use language to express and appreciate complex meanings. Linguistic intelligence allows us to understand the order and meaning of words and to apply meta-linguistic skills to reflect on our use of language. Linguistic intelligence is the most widely shared human competence and is evident in poets, novelists, journalists, and effective public speakers. Young adults with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles.

8. Intra-personal Intelligence (Self Smart”)
9. Spatial Intelligence (“Picture Smart”)

(more info: http://skyview.vansd.org/lschmidt/Projects/The Nine Types of Intelligence.htm)

...As for Michael being the most talented person who ever lived? I can't say that, because I haven't met everyone and seen their talents.

But he darn sure is the most talented person who has ever gotten exposure in the entertainment industry!
 
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So, he definitely has an inherent ability, but his talents have been perfected and without the hard work that he put in, and influence from other talented people, he would not be who he is today.
 
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Oh no Foxy...talented people are talented people, hands down.

And the comparison made by Ape makes it clear, all of the Jackson brothers were trained and trained hard by Joe all the same, but from the first moment Michael always stood out, and it was because of his natural innate talent that simply radiated out of him.
 
One simply has to watch children to see the vast range of gifts and abilities in each one of them. We are not put together from the same parts and assembled identically. DNA holds so much predetermined information about us all. If you ever become a parent of more than one child you'll understand the natural part of the equation.
 
^^^^you do have to ask why Michael stood out, especially since the family assumed that Jermaine would end up being the lead singer, and they all got equal treatment.
 
^^^ Exactly my point! It was because as talented as they all were, specially Jermaine, Michael was even MORE talented, ridiculously talented.
 
You can't learn talent. It has to be innate, in you from birth. The only thing one can do is bring out what is already there. I'm 100% positive that Michael would have made it to what he is today with or without his father's diciplin or prompting, because what Michael does is something that he loved and wanted from a time before his father even wanted him to participate. He began mimicking Jermaine's voice when he was 3, 4 years old, he was dancing from the same age. It's something he was always drawn to.

With the extent of the human population, of course its possible that there are people in the world who have the kind of talent Michael does, who have gone "undiscovered", but make no mistake, Michael's kind of talent is immeasurably rare and there never has been before him, and there never has been since him a known individual who has displayed the kind of talent Michael possesses. And there are MANY known artists in the world.

Michael is extremely, EXTREMELY special, more so then even many of his fans realize, and the likelyhood that there will ever be another individual who displays the same array of talents, with the same level of quality that Michael has, is very unlikely.

An argument in support of talent being inherent and only something you can be born with is to compare Michael to his brother Marlon in terms of dance ability. Marlon is an okay dancer, only achieved after extremely hard work and determination to become profiecient in the field. Michael didn't work as hard as Marlon because it simply came easily to him. Yet, despite his lesser work rate in the field, he still displays far superior ability to Marlon in dance. The reason is, no matter how hard you work, if you are not born with talent in any specific area, you can only ever become okay. You can never become good, and you can never become great. If you are born with some talent, but not a lot, you can only ever become good. To become great, like Michael, you must be born with a large amount of talent.

The kind of talent Michael has can never be taught or achieved merely through hard work. One can not achieve Michael's quality or range of voice through hard work, or ability to time and express his voice. One cannot achieve Michael's uncanny timing, rhythm as a damcer, or his ability to use that speed while keeping his lines clean through hard work. One cannot learn to organize sound in the way Michael does, have that sense of harmony and melody and know how to combine it all to create such amazing pieces of music. You can't learn that, you have to be born with that sense.

Hard work can only bring out what is already there, it cannot create something out of nothing.
 
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err....I wouldn't say "God given" but that's coz I'm a non-believer.

Certain attributes are classified by DNA but that's way too complex to go into.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
You can't learn talent. It has to be innate, in you from birth. The only thing one can do is bring out what is already there. I'm 100% positive that Michael would have made it to what he is today with or without his father's diciplin or prompting, because what Michael does is something that he loved and wanted from a time before his father even wanted him to participate. He began mimicking Jermaine's voice when he was 3, 4 years old, he was dancing from the same age. It's something he was always drawn to.

With the extent of the human population, of course its possible that there are people in the world who have the kind of talent Michael does, who have gone "undiscovered", but make no mistake, Michael's kind of talent is immeasurably rare and there never has been before him, and there never has been since him a known individual who has displayed the kind of talent Michael possesses. And there are MANY known artists in the world.

Michael is extremely, EXTREMELY special, more so then even many of his fans realize, and the likelyhood that there will ever be another individual who displays the same array of talents, with the same level of quality that Michael has, is very unlikely.

An argument in support of talent being inherent and only something you can be born with is to compare Michael to his brother Marlon in terms of dance ability. Marlon is an okay dancer, only achieved after extremely hard work and determination to become profiecient in the field. Michael didn't work as hard as Marlon because it simply came easily to him. Yet, despite his lesser work rate in the field, he still displays far superior ability to Marlon in dance. The reason is, no matter how hard you work, if you are not born with talent in any specific area, you can only ever become okay. You can never become good, and you can never become great. If you are born with some talent, but not a lot, you can only ever become good. To become great, like Michael, you must be born with a large amount of talent.

The kind of talent Michael has can never be taught or achieved merely through hard work. One can not achieve Michael's quality or range of voice through hard work, or ability to time and express his voice. One cannot achieve Michael's uncanny timing, rhythm as a damcer, or his ability to use that speed while keeping his lines clean through hard work. One cannot learn to organize sound in the way Michael does, have that sense of harmony and melody and know how to combine it all to create such amazing pieces of music. You can't learn that, you have to be born with that sense.

Hard work can only bring out what is already there, it cannot create something out of nothing.
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Actually, that's not true (the bolded). Michael always talks about how he rehearsed moves over and over and over to a point of perfection.

But yes, obviously he has a natural dancing ability...but he practiced, to make it perfect. No one comes out of the womb knowing how to moonwalk lol.
 
:cheers:
LovelyOne said:
Actually, that's not true (the bolded). Michael always talks about how he rehearsed moves over and over and over to a point of perfection.

But yes, obviously he has a natural dancing ability...but he practiced, to make it perfect. No one comes out of the womb knowing how to moonwalk lol.
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Thank you for saying that. There are many talented people in the world, but one needs to be at the right place at the righht time and with the right people to realise that talent. MJ had all that., He was born into the right family, had some very talented brothers, who norished and encouraged his talent and he had the right father who wasn't just able to recognise talent but had the vision to see it work.
MJ had the start he needed and he got the motivation he needed to help him along, furthermore, he didn't have to worry about the paperwork,he also was among some exceptionally talented people.
Everything were happening at the right time.
MJ's talent comes with dedication to his are and hard work. Much of it instilled in him by his parents
 
LovelyOne said:
Actually, that's not true (the bolded). Michael always talks about how he rehearsed moves over and over and over to a point of perfection.

But yes, obviously he has a natural dancing ability...but he practiced, to make it perfect. No one comes out of the womb knowing how to moonwalk lol.
Click to expand...

Later on in life, Michael practiced and practiced, but it's a well known fact that Marlon worked the hardest out of everyone in the group to get the steps right, because he had the least talent as a dancer, he had to work harder. Michael could see a step once and do it right away, but Marlon had to do it over and over before he could do it right. And Michael was still better. That's the difference between having talent and acquiring skill.

You have to practice to bring out what is already there, but you can't create something out of nothing. You can only hone talent, you can't create it.

You can create skill. But talent is what makes the difference between first place and second place. For example, if you have two sprinters, both train as hard as the other, yet one consistently comes in first place, while the other consistently comes in second place, it's TALENT that seperates the two.

What do you think it is that makes Michael a better dancer then people who are trained professionals and have been doing it since the age of 3, 4 years old? Why does Michael move better then them, even without having been able to dedicate his life to it like they have? It's talent. You cannot create the kind of voice Michael has. You can improve what you have, but you can't create it if it's not there to begin with, etc...

To say because his parent's pushed him is the reason he can sing or dance is wrong. He could do that naturally, his parent's simply encouraged it, they didn't create it, unless you want to talk about DNA and genes.
 
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