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JOY BEHAR SHOW
Memories of Michael Jackson; The Legendary Harry Belafonte
Aired October 14, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Grammy winner Patti Austin reflects on her 30-year friendship with Michael Jackson and the demons that plagued the king of pop.
And did Michael Jackson`s kids witness their father`s drug use? Joy talks to Mackenzie Phillips whose dad was a drug user, about the impact that has on a child`s development.
Plus Harry Belafonte tells Joy about going from a poor Jamaican boy to one of America`s most iconic civil rights pioneers.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: As the Conrad Murray trial continues, a picture of Michael Jackson as a deeply troubled potentially drug-dependent man emerges. But was that the way he appeared to people who knew him well? Here to talk about their memories of Michael are Patti Austin, Grammy winning singer who knew Michael Jackson for 30 years; and another long time Michael Jackson friend, Flo Anthony. Welcome ladies, to the show.
Patti, you worked with Michael multiple times over the years. What do you remember best about him?
PATTI AUSTIN, SINGER: His energy, is Eveready, bunny, hummingbird, never stop energy. He was always on fire, always a perfectionist, always tremendously professional. Very silly, in private moments. Yes, very silly. Had a very silly sophomoric sense of humor. Loved to jump out from behind doors and scare me.
He loved me because I scare very easily. And he would -- whenever I would heading for the studio and he knew I was coming in the door, he`d always be behind the door a little bit further down the hall and he`d jump out literally and do, you know, like boo. And I would always jump and it just made his day.
BEHAR: Yes, he was a practical joker, kind of, right?
AUSTIN: Very much so, absolutely.
BEHAR: And Flo, you met him at Disney World?
FLO ANTHONY, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes, in the late `70s. It was actually Mike, Latoya, Janet and Randy and their bodyguard, Bill Bray.
BEHAR: And what was he like away from the spotlight? Did you ever meet "Bubbles" the chimp?
ANTHONY: No. But I know wild stories about Bubbles. He wasn`t always a nice little chimp when he first got there. He threw dishes and things from the chandeliers and everything. And so they called in someone and they told Michael, this is almost animal abuse. You have to feed him banana chips, not McDonald`s and put him in a diaper? So I never met Bubbles.
But you know, Patti is right. You know, Michael was a prankster, infectious smile, sweet wonderful personality all the time.
BEHAR: Patti, what was his relationship with his family like?
AUSTIN: Well, when I knew Michael, the relationship was not great. He got along great with his sisters but did not speak fondly of the guys in the family.
BEHAR: Really?
AUSTIN: There was -- he always -- the conversations that we had, he always felt kind of put upon because at the time that I met Michael, it was right when he was doing "The Wiz" and he wasn`t even speaking at that time. Michael used to literally sit in the studio with a pad and paper -- I mean with a pad and pen. If he`d hear somebody say something remotely intelligent, he would write it down. He was always trying to learn and absorb anything that he thought was intelligent.
BEHAR: Yes.
AUSTIN: So he was very, very quiet; very, very shy, frighteningly shy. We didn`t really start working together until "The Dude", until Quincy Jones` album, "The Dude". That`s when I started talking to him.
And a lot of our conversations were about his relationship with his family. He adored his mother. He adored his sisters. But at that particular time, he didn`t have the greatest relationship with his brothers or with his dad because he was -- he was really trying to branch out on his own. He was trying to break away from the Jackson 5 and break away from what that was. So he kind of felt that that was holding him back from being all that he ultimately became and wanted to be. He worked very hard to become that.
BEHAR: Flo, was he afraid of his father?
ANTHONY: When he was a kid, I don`t think he was ever as afraid of Mr. Jackson as the other boys were. They would stand there and take punishment. I`m a kid born in the `50s. We got punished; we really did with a belt, my mother say, go get the switch. That`s what happens to black children. Your parents took nothing.
Michael would run from him. He really kind of, you know, was a little more daring than the rest of the guys.
BEHAR: I think he used to get hit, though.
ANTHONY: If he caught him but he would actually run from him and stand up and say smart things and tell him no.
BEHAR: But as an adult, do you think he liked -- did he love his father?
ANTHONY: Yes. He loved his father very much. And in the end, when they were preparing to go to London and Michael saw the contracts and things weren`t right, he called his father to come in and negotiate with AEG for him.
BEHAR: Well, I`m sure he felt that his father was a strong negotiator, good manager.
ANTHONY: But I mean he loved his father.
BEHAR: Patti, you say that Michael was a troubled soul who internalized his grief. What do you mean by that?
AUSTIN: Well, you know, Michael didn`t really -- I don`t think he really talked that much about all of the pain that he felt to that many people.
He would talk to me about it because we were working. And I think when you have a working relationship with somebody it`s almost closer than if you`re having a sexual relationship with them, if that makes any sense. You have a tendency, you become -- when you`re working on an album or you`re touring together, you have a tendency to become like a family. And you spend a lot of time on buses and a lot of times waiting in a studio to get back in and actually do your work, so you talk about things.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What was troubling him. Go ahead. What was troubling him?
AUSTIN: Just his childhood really troubled him. He felt that he lost his childhood, which is why so many of us that knew Michael always said he suffered from Peter Pan Syndrome. You know, he wanted to be forever young and he did a lot of chid -- he acted out in a child-like way a lot because he didn`t get to have that when he was a kid.
He felt -- I mean these are the discussions I had with him. I don`t know what he said to anybody else. But he told me many times that he felt that he had been robbed of his childhood.
BEHAR: Yes.
AUSTIN: He loved the fact he was able to become a great entertainer, but he also at the same time, it was a love-hate thing. He hated the fact that he lost his childhood in the process. And I started in the business when I was a kid so this is a conversation we used to have a lot. I started when I was four.
BEHAR: You know Flo, you do say that the molestation trial that he had, had a profound impact on Michael. Tell me about that. How did that hurt him?
ANTHONY: It totally broke his spirit, Joy. Especially the second accusation where he was actually arrested and he was in court and on trial and he faced going to prison. It totally broke his spirit.
And when the district attorney`s office came in, they totally wrecked his house, they tore paintings off the wall, threw around gold coins. He never actually lived in the main house again after that. He`d stay in one of the guesthouse because it was too painful for him to go into the house.
And I just wanted to add, with his childhood aside from I know having to perform and wanting to play was one thing. But I think he also, even though he was a devout Jehovah`s Witness and believed in his religion, he really always talked about the no Christmas and the no birthdays and would even sneak over to his brother Jackie house because his wife, Ynes (ph), put a Christmas tree up. Those are some of the things he missed about having a childhood, also.
BEHAR: Before we go, I just want to bring one more thing up, Flo, because it came out in court this week that Michael really did have what they call vitiligo.
ANTHONY: Vitiligo. Yes, he did.
BEHAR: Vitiligo and he had tattoos on his lips, on his eyes, on his scalp.
ANTHONY: Well, that was the color. The pink color was tattooed on. I believe the eyeliner was tattooed on and also to darken the eyebrows, it was tattooed on.
BEHAR: So I`m not really clear on how that works.
ANTHONY: Well, he didn`t have to wear makeup, that`s how that worked, with the lips and his eyes and everything.
BEHAR: What did he do? His skin was spotty?
ANTHONY: Yes, it`s spotty. Vitiligo is when your skin starts turning white. And so, he was just --
BEHAR: So how did he get it to match?
ANTHONY: Well, he used creams to even it out so he would still be able to perform and not look scary or anything to people.
BEHAR: I see. Ok. Thanks, ladies, very much. Thank you, Patti.
And a quick note, Patti Austin`s new album "Sound Advice" is available now. We`ll be right back. She`s a great singer. Great.
Transcript from: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1110/14/joy.01.html
Video available on: http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/14/mjs-silly-side-he-liked-to-play-practical-jokes/
Memories of Michael Jackson; The Legendary Harry Belafonte
Aired October 14, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Grammy winner Patti Austin reflects on her 30-year friendship with Michael Jackson and the demons that plagued the king of pop.
And did Michael Jackson`s kids witness their father`s drug use? Joy talks to Mackenzie Phillips whose dad was a drug user, about the impact that has on a child`s development.
Plus Harry Belafonte tells Joy about going from a poor Jamaican boy to one of America`s most iconic civil rights pioneers.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: As the Conrad Murray trial continues, a picture of Michael Jackson as a deeply troubled potentially drug-dependent man emerges. But was that the way he appeared to people who knew him well? Here to talk about their memories of Michael are Patti Austin, Grammy winning singer who knew Michael Jackson for 30 years; and another long time Michael Jackson friend, Flo Anthony. Welcome ladies, to the show.
Patti, you worked with Michael multiple times over the years. What do you remember best about him?
PATTI AUSTIN, SINGER: His energy, is Eveready, bunny, hummingbird, never stop energy. He was always on fire, always a perfectionist, always tremendously professional. Very silly, in private moments. Yes, very silly. Had a very silly sophomoric sense of humor. Loved to jump out from behind doors and scare me.
He loved me because I scare very easily. And he would -- whenever I would heading for the studio and he knew I was coming in the door, he`d always be behind the door a little bit further down the hall and he`d jump out literally and do, you know, like boo. And I would always jump and it just made his day.
BEHAR: Yes, he was a practical joker, kind of, right?
AUSTIN: Very much so, absolutely.
BEHAR: And Flo, you met him at Disney World?
FLO ANTHONY, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes, in the late `70s. It was actually Mike, Latoya, Janet and Randy and their bodyguard, Bill Bray.
BEHAR: And what was he like away from the spotlight? Did you ever meet "Bubbles" the chimp?
ANTHONY: No. But I know wild stories about Bubbles. He wasn`t always a nice little chimp when he first got there. He threw dishes and things from the chandeliers and everything. And so they called in someone and they told Michael, this is almost animal abuse. You have to feed him banana chips, not McDonald`s and put him in a diaper? So I never met Bubbles.
But you know, Patti is right. You know, Michael was a prankster, infectious smile, sweet wonderful personality all the time.
BEHAR: Patti, what was his relationship with his family like?
AUSTIN: Well, when I knew Michael, the relationship was not great. He got along great with his sisters but did not speak fondly of the guys in the family.
BEHAR: Really?
AUSTIN: There was -- he always -- the conversations that we had, he always felt kind of put upon because at the time that I met Michael, it was right when he was doing "The Wiz" and he wasn`t even speaking at that time. Michael used to literally sit in the studio with a pad and paper -- I mean with a pad and pen. If he`d hear somebody say something remotely intelligent, he would write it down. He was always trying to learn and absorb anything that he thought was intelligent.
BEHAR: Yes.
AUSTIN: So he was very, very quiet; very, very shy, frighteningly shy. We didn`t really start working together until "The Dude", until Quincy Jones` album, "The Dude". That`s when I started talking to him.
And a lot of our conversations were about his relationship with his family. He adored his mother. He adored his sisters. But at that particular time, he didn`t have the greatest relationship with his brothers or with his dad because he was -- he was really trying to branch out on his own. He was trying to break away from the Jackson 5 and break away from what that was. So he kind of felt that that was holding him back from being all that he ultimately became and wanted to be. He worked very hard to become that.
BEHAR: Flo, was he afraid of his father?
ANTHONY: When he was a kid, I don`t think he was ever as afraid of Mr. Jackson as the other boys were. They would stand there and take punishment. I`m a kid born in the `50s. We got punished; we really did with a belt, my mother say, go get the switch. That`s what happens to black children. Your parents took nothing.
Michael would run from him. He really kind of, you know, was a little more daring than the rest of the guys.
BEHAR: I think he used to get hit, though.
ANTHONY: If he caught him but he would actually run from him and stand up and say smart things and tell him no.
BEHAR: But as an adult, do you think he liked -- did he love his father?
ANTHONY: Yes. He loved his father very much. And in the end, when they were preparing to go to London and Michael saw the contracts and things weren`t right, he called his father to come in and negotiate with AEG for him.
BEHAR: Well, I`m sure he felt that his father was a strong negotiator, good manager.
ANTHONY: But I mean he loved his father.
BEHAR: Patti, you say that Michael was a troubled soul who internalized his grief. What do you mean by that?
AUSTIN: Well, you know, Michael didn`t really -- I don`t think he really talked that much about all of the pain that he felt to that many people.
He would talk to me about it because we were working. And I think when you have a working relationship with somebody it`s almost closer than if you`re having a sexual relationship with them, if that makes any sense. You have a tendency, you become -- when you`re working on an album or you`re touring together, you have a tendency to become like a family. And you spend a lot of time on buses and a lot of times waiting in a studio to get back in and actually do your work, so you talk about things.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What was troubling him. Go ahead. What was troubling him?
AUSTIN: Just his childhood really troubled him. He felt that he lost his childhood, which is why so many of us that knew Michael always said he suffered from Peter Pan Syndrome. You know, he wanted to be forever young and he did a lot of chid -- he acted out in a child-like way a lot because he didn`t get to have that when he was a kid.
He felt -- I mean these are the discussions I had with him. I don`t know what he said to anybody else. But he told me many times that he felt that he had been robbed of his childhood.
BEHAR: Yes.
AUSTIN: He loved the fact he was able to become a great entertainer, but he also at the same time, it was a love-hate thing. He hated the fact that he lost his childhood in the process. And I started in the business when I was a kid so this is a conversation we used to have a lot. I started when I was four.
BEHAR: You know Flo, you do say that the molestation trial that he had, had a profound impact on Michael. Tell me about that. How did that hurt him?
ANTHONY: It totally broke his spirit, Joy. Especially the second accusation where he was actually arrested and he was in court and on trial and he faced going to prison. It totally broke his spirit.
And when the district attorney`s office came in, they totally wrecked his house, they tore paintings off the wall, threw around gold coins. He never actually lived in the main house again after that. He`d stay in one of the guesthouse because it was too painful for him to go into the house.
And I just wanted to add, with his childhood aside from I know having to perform and wanting to play was one thing. But I think he also, even though he was a devout Jehovah`s Witness and believed in his religion, he really always talked about the no Christmas and the no birthdays and would even sneak over to his brother Jackie house because his wife, Ynes (ph), put a Christmas tree up. Those are some of the things he missed about having a childhood, also.
BEHAR: Before we go, I just want to bring one more thing up, Flo, because it came out in court this week that Michael really did have what they call vitiligo.
ANTHONY: Vitiligo. Yes, he did.
BEHAR: Vitiligo and he had tattoos on his lips, on his eyes, on his scalp.
ANTHONY: Well, that was the color. The pink color was tattooed on. I believe the eyeliner was tattooed on and also to darken the eyebrows, it was tattooed on.
BEHAR: So I`m not really clear on how that works.
ANTHONY: Well, he didn`t have to wear makeup, that`s how that worked, with the lips and his eyes and everything.
BEHAR: What did he do? His skin was spotty?
ANTHONY: Yes, it`s spotty. Vitiligo is when your skin starts turning white. And so, he was just --
BEHAR: So how did he get it to match?
ANTHONY: Well, he used creams to even it out so he would still be able to perform and not look scary or anything to people.
BEHAR: I see. Ok. Thanks, ladies, very much. Thank you, Patti.
And a quick note, Patti Austin`s new album "Sound Advice" is available now. We`ll be right back. She`s a great singer. Great.
Transcript from: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1110/14/joy.01.html
Video available on: http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/14/mjs-silly-side-he-liked-to-play-practical-jokes/