Males with a high pitched voices

[Muumi]

Hi

I don't know if there are any classical music lovers out there wanting to entertain some discussion on males with high pitched voices. There is a lot of discussion on Michael being a modern day castrato which I do not believe personally (unless someone did give MJ some injections as our dear friend Dick Gregory said he did during the 70s).

Anyways, I saw this article on LA Times and bought the CD right away. I think the topic is fascinating and part of European Music culture which MJ loved so much.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/cul...-bartoli-on-castrati-and-michael-jackson.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXzfom3Uqc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato

Anyone any comments on this?

I just thought this being absolutely interesting and sad. It took so much dedication for these boys being treated like this by their families but still not really sure about whether they would get famous or not.

Did you know that most superstars of the 18th Century were castratos. Now that I read more and more about the topic, I find it fascinating how ladies at that time fell in love with these males with high voices and child like faces....just like with Michael. People really do not change.

These people were singing in the pain and somehow, I can understand now the artistry or MJs sacrifice for his art...he lived for his art. It has been done before. Amazing to learn the similarities. The fact that he is now referred to this highly artistic and sad part of music history is so intriguing and definitely interesting.

 

[SJK]

Thanks for sharing. This is very interesting. It is very sad how people mutilate themselves for some goal. The parallels between this and Michael are really interesting and eye opening.

There is discussion about Michael be a castrato? If he was castrated, that would have shown in the autopsy report, and it can't be a hormonal issue... Michael often times has a very deep speaking voice! Michael is just gifted because he has such a vocal range in his singing voice.

 

[Muumi]

I can not really believe MJ was castrated (chemically or otherwise) even though there is a lot of discussion on it and people referring to it and saying such. Its not really my business and I am not really interested on that. However, I do find the whole notion of a Castrato singers interesting.

I do not know that much about the Castrato singers lives. What I have read is that they were adored by women because of their sensitivity, childlike appearance and clear voices much like MJ was and had.These Castrato singers often gained high statuses in royal courts and could influence people because of their talent. They were the famous stars during their times. But these people were also ridiculed because they were so very different from a normal male sex and often lived for their art in seclusion and were only accepted while performing on stage. Its interesting to see that even with times, the ladies still prefer this androgen look and high pitched voices.

Much of Castrato singers life could be from Michael's. MJ had an incredible voice. He was a tenor, a brilliant one, and his voice was more classical than pop I think. MJ had to sacrifice a lot for his art and he did. Its very romantic and sad at the same time. I think Michael's voice really did open the door for him to the classical side of music where it is very difficult to be accepted if you do not have the talent and he sat with the royals and dined with the politicians. He could sing high C without any difficulty and beautifully. He had this aura of an artist surrounding him and it was not fake. That is extraordinary and we do not have the pleasure to experience that that often.

But I think the reason why I brought MJ up in this context is that he sacrificed a lot for his art just like these Castratos did, but in a different way I think. I find that the notion of a Castrato singer is very romantic and artistic....almost pure and so very true in the classical world of music. I think the referring to Michael in this context is actually very nice and flattering. Dedication to art died with Michael I think. In that sense he was the "Castrato" of our times.

I did order the CD above just to hear what the music was about and learn more. I think MJ was aware of the topic. He loved the Vienna Choir boys and this Castrato tradition really did start from there.

Incredibly fascinating.

I think Sony made a movie Farinelli 1994 and its on one of the most famous Castratis Carlo Broschi (1705-82) called Farinelli...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWMOmBohlTE

http://malesopranos.com/articles/farinelli-9/an-amazing-life-carlo-broschi-farinelli-89/

 

[Muumi]

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[144000]

i guess it is a weird sort of back handed compliment, when a person is born, that isn't considered a 'normal' voiced singer, and people don't understand it, so they come up with their own unproven conclusions.

 

[DIRTYDIANA☆]

I loved Mike's voice very much..from the control & emotion to his ability to sing high..it's crazy how he had a 4-octave range..his was INCREDIBLE!!

 

[Muumi]

i guess it is a weird sort of back handed compliment, when a person is born, that isn't considered a 'normal' voiced singer, and people don't understand it, so they come up with their own unproven conclusions.

Mmm...yes, I think I know what you mean. I think the whole thought of Michael being a castrati is that people just now realised how good he was and that they can not give Michael credit for his greatness (not that being considered as having a castrati voice is bad....actually it is not) or it could be that these people need to learn more about classical music and singers. The earlier discussions on this topic in relation to Michael, as I have noticed, also tends to focus on his manhood...which is completely a different story in itself...

There is a very famous Castrati singer out there called Radu Marian ("natural" or "endocrinological castrati") . Some of his performances are on youtube if you want to sample the voice. He probably can not be compared to Farinelli (and we do not know how Farinelli's voice was like)...but the voice is nothing like Michael's. I think there is a lot of difference in Michael's voice and in Castrati voice...actually, it is a completely different sound.

 

[Muumi]

I loved Mike's voice very much..from the control & emotion to his ability to sing high..it's crazy how he had a 4-octave range..his was INCREDIBLE!!

Yes he was. I have noticed that the more I study classical music and singing...the more I appreciate Michael's voice. The song Childhood makes me completely mesmerized....and the song Speechless as well.

 

[Travis]

Yes he was. I have noticed that the more I study classical music and singing...the more I appreciate Michael's voice. The song Childhood makes me completely mesmerized....and the song Speechless as well.

Ditto!

Also, I find this topic slightly insulting but only because it's frustrating how people would say or do anything to diminish MJ's talent and legacy. No one wanted to give him the credit he deserved for his natural talent and hard work.

 

[MarielovesMJ]

There are plently of males with high pitch singing voice. I really love these singers in the soul music. And I love mike's voice like this too.

 

[Muumi]

Ditto!

Also, I find this topic slightly insulting but only because it's frustrating how people would say or do anything to diminish MJ's talent and legacy. No one wanted to give him the credit he deserved for his natural talent and hard work.

I understand, for the same reason, I would like to talk about it...to educate whomever comes and reads this thread about this topic. For me this is interesting purely from the classical side of things and music...and that is the way it should be. I also find it fascinating how history repeats itself when it comes to people, specially ladies, loving the androgen look. Michael was loved by all....and reading about Farinellis's life, people in London were saying "there is God and there is Farinelli"... loving his voice at that time. The comparison of Michael's and Farinelli's talent and fame is interesting for me.

I suppose if during the 18th they would have had the techniques as today in teaching singing...I think he practice of castration would have been less needed to some extent.

I don't find anything insulting in saying someone has a Castrato voice. Its a voice, highly appreciated one specially when it comes to singing baroque music. Of course we do not castrate anyone anymore cos of art but the voice still is used in operas. (if someone has a voice like this)...why it should be insulting...we all are different. Michael was a tenor though...

Anyways, I need to study this further....thanks for such lovely comments...♥

 

[144000]

Ditto!

Also, I find this topic slightly insulting but only because it's frustrating how people would say or do anything to diminish MJ's talent and legacy. No one wanted to give him the credit he deserved for his natural talent and hard work.

i agree with that.

 

[Muumi]

I would not say, no one wanted to give him the credit...that is not exactly true you know. Michael was well appreciated....I believe its the people who took too much notice of the media believes that and keep quoting that. That I think is insulting for Michael's sake. Michael was loved by people and I can not really understand that after seeing what has happened now there are still some saying he was not...MJ will be remembered forever. (Just like all these classical performers that we still talk about).

 

[Muumi]

MJ is gone and I suppose, by reading about Farinelli and all...I hope MJ and his work would be remembered the same way....that is what he wanted. That is what I will do.

Anyways, thanks.

 

[DIRTYDIANA☆]

Yes he was. I have noticed that the more I study classical music and singing...the more I appreciate Michael's voice. The song Childhood makes me completely mesmerized....and the song Speechless as well.

I was listening to Childhood yesterday and his voice on that song it just beautiful..imo, that was one of his best vocal performances on a song..

 

[ginvid]

Ok, this is what I have to say about this. If people were just looking at MJ's voice and comparing it to a castrati because of its beauty, then I would not mind. However, if you google Castrati and Mj, they almost exclusively use it in a negative sense. They use it to say why he could not have fathered children. they use it to say he has a flambloyant lifestyle and this is why. They use it to say he is asexual. Every media story filled with stupidity, they try to tailor it to a castrati and make Mj fit iinto that, which I hate. That's all.

 

[ThunderPower]

I tend to like very high tenor male voices over others, singers like Geddy Lee (of Rush) and Elton John appeal to me alot. Tenors tend to have more impressive vocal parts and generally sound more emotional than baritones and basses.

 

[Upside]

HAHAHA Michael was NOT castrated!!

 

[Muumi]

Ok, this is what I have to say about this. If people were just looking at MJ's voice and comparing it to a castrati because of its beauty, then I would not mind. However, if you google Castrati and Mj, they almost exclusively use it in a negative sense. They use it to say why he could not have fathered children. they use it to say he has a flambloyant lifestyle and this is why. They use it to say he is asexual. Every media story filled with stupidity, they try to tailor it to a castrati and make Mj fit iinto that, which I hate. That's all.

True. This post is seen when Googling...and read by a lot of people. That actually prompted me to open up a discussion here but I was not sure how to start it and how the post would be received. I believe Its time to discuss this matter seriously in its true context which should be history, classical music and the beauty of a human voice.

It is obvious that most people talking about this subject do not know that much about castrato voice or classical music...nor Michael. They also insult people who have this voice cos of illness these days...it is incredibly insulting way to talk about a very delicate subject. Also Castrato singers in the history of classical music is absolutely important and fascinating which should not be talked about in this way.

 

[Travis]

There's obviously no truth to any of the castrati stories. I would have never believed such a thing anyway but the autopsy report more than proves the theory to be bogus. I think if the family jewels were missing it would have been mentioned, no? So silly! Why is the concept that MJ was naturally talented so hard to grasp? Why in the world would a practice from centuries ago be an explanation to one mans incredible gift? Come on!

 

[Muumi]

There's obviously no truth to any of the castrati stories. I would have never believed such a thing anyway but the autopsy report more than proves the theory to be bogus. I think if the family jewels were missing it would have been mentioned, no? So silly! Why is the concept that MJ was naturally talented so hard to grasp? Why in the world would a practice from centuries ago be an explanation to one mans incredible gift? Come on!

Why it is so hard to understand MJ had talent and why it has to associated with this practice...I don't know. My theory is that we just have to accept that not all people knew MJ really well...they have probably just realised they have missed something great and are picking up the music to listen to...or I don't know...I am not going to wonder about it too much.

But I would like to add that Personally I believe we have not seen the real and full autopsy report and I do have to say men with hormonal issues can have the "family jewels" in place as you put it so eloquently.

 

[Muumi]

I tend to like very high tenor male voices over others, singers like Geddy Lee (of Rush) and Elton John appeal to me alot. Tenors tend to have more impressive vocal parts and generally sound more emotional than baritones and basses.

I know what you mean...I have a thing with high tenor voice as well...makes me happy!

 

[Travis]

But I would like to add that Personally I believe we have not seen the real and full autopsy report and I do have to say men with hormonal issues can have the "family jewels" in place as you put it so eloquently.

Please don't give this ridiculous "theory" any more shelf life than it's already had. MJ didn't have hormonal issues. He was all man. I'm not saying you are insinuating such, but rather clearing the air in case anyone else does. It's all so absurd.

 

[144000]

Why it is so hard to understand MJ had talent and why it has to associated with this practice...I don't know. My theory is that we just have to accept that not all people knew MJ really well...they have probably just realised they have missed something great and are picking up the music to listen to...or I don't know...I am not going to wonder about it too much.

But I would like to add that Personally I believe we have not seen the real and full autopsy report and I do have to say men with hormonal issues can have the "family jewels" in place as you put it so eloquently.

so you do believe MJ had hormonal issues?

well...i don't.

sometimes, the axe just does float.

sometimes, a person is simply just born with talent that people are not used to.

 

[DuranDuran]

I didn't read the article but I've never heard that other singers like El DeBarge, Eddie Kendricks, Smokey Robinson, Phillip Bailey, or the Gibb brothers have been castrated lol. In India there's something similar called eunuchs. They've existed for centuries. I think they're even mentioned in the bible.

 

[ginvid]

I didn't read the article but I've never heard that other singers like El DeBarge, Eddie Kendricks, Smokey Robinson, Phillip Bailey, or the Gibb brothers have been castrated lol. In India there's something similar called eunuchs. They've existed for centuries. I think they're even mentioned in the bible.

There's the story of the Ethiopian Eunuch in the Bible.

 

[144000]

I didn't read the article but I've never heard that other singers like El DeBarge, Eddie Kendricks, Smokey Robinson, Phillip Bailey, or the Gibb brothers have been castrated lol. In India there's something similar called eunuchs. They've existed for centuries. I think they're even mentioned in the bible.

there's a noticeable difference between all those singers (which also can include Michael McDonald)..

and Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson just sounded like he was stuck in boyhood, both speaking, and with his angelic singing voice. and the aura was different, too.

those other singers speak like men, and sing like angels. but still..i stand by what i believe. lol

 

[DuranDuran]

^^^^^Jackie has a softer speaking voice than Mike. Ralph Tresvant (and maybe Ricky Bell) still has a kid like singing voice. That is the main reason Johnny Gill was added to New Edition, to give them a more adult sound.

 

[Muumi]

so you do believe MJ had hormonal issues?

well...i don't.

sometimes, the axe just does float.

sometimes, a person is simply just born with talent that people are not used to.

...no I don't...don't really even wanna talk about it. Its none of my business....I just like classical music, Michael's music and the history of classical music in Europe...I am European so I suppose it comes naturally. Not sure about you...maybe I am a bit older that any of you anyways....

Hi, it was nice to talk to you all...

 

[144000]

...no I don't...don't really even wanna talk about it. Its none of my business....I just like classical music, Michael's music and the history of classical music in Europe...I am European so I suppose it comes naturally. Not sure about you...maybe I am a bit older that any of you anyways....

Hi, it was nice to talk to you all...

it's always good to discuss. i do appreciate what you have to say...and i thank you for your respect. we have our views, but i am grateful to learn something new, and i appreciate what you brought to the table, because i've never heard of it, before..