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Lets Discuss BAD concerts footage and what may have been shot on film ?

rsggamer123

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Im wondering if July 16th concert was shot on film (which it most likely was) does that mean there would be different camera angles? or would it be the same? I absolutely LOVE the concert, and i do think this could possibly be his greatest performance ever HOWEVER some of the camera angles don't do the performance justice. So if this was re released one day is it possible there would be different camera angles?
 
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rsggamer123 said:
Im wondering if this concert was shot on film (which it most likely was) does that mean there would be different camera angles? or would it be the same? I absolutely LOVE the concert, and i do think this could possibly be his greatest performance ever HOWEVER some of the camera angles don't do the performance justice. So if this was re released one day is it possible there would be different camera angles?
Click to expand...

Yes, they would be completely different camera angles. Next time I watch it, I'm going to try to keep a look out for film camera men. Does anyone know what sort of cameras would have been used for the jumbotron feed verses the ones used to shoot film?
 
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rsggamer123 said:
Im wondering if this concert was shot on film (which it most likely was) does that mean there would be different camera angles? or would it be the same? I absolutely LOVE the concert, and i do think this could possibly be his greatest performance ever HOWEVER some of the camera angles don't do the performance justice. So if this was re released one day is it possible there would be different camera angles?
Click to expand...

Yes, they'd be able to edit each camera angle, choosing the best possible :) If the show is recorded on film, you're able to mix/edit/change each second of it.
 
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WildStyle said:
Yes, they would be completely different camera angles. Next time I watch it, I'm going to try to keep a look out for film camera men. Does anyone know what sort of cameras would have been used for the jumbotron feed verses the ones used to shoot film?
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The Jumbotron cameras are white for the main body and black on top and at the front during WBSS, APOM & HH(especially during the beginning of HH) you can see a camera man holding one in front of the stage I count 5 in total.

1. Left side on a crane which has a white covering as he finishes the side walk you can see it tracking him running in front of it and running back to the mic.
2. Right side on a crane
3. Handheld stood at the front
4. On Stage Handheld(he can be during the beginning of the second verse of APOM)
5. Camera for the long zooms and front view

And 6 if you count that HQ shot before IJCSLY

Film cameras would be black if they used 35mm the film stock will be on top, if they used 16mm cameras the stock will be on the top or the back.
 
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that HQ shot before IJCSLY is similar to the one after WBSS, looks like it was added later on by the editors. It's probably sourced from film or otherwise MJ's personal cameramen.
 
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Is there any evidence to suggest this concert was indeed shot on film? Anybody see any film cameras being used? You would think since this was an important concert for MJ there is a good chance this would be one of the concerts shot using film cameras.
 
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I don't know about THIS concert. Maybe other(s)
 
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It was confirmed that this concert was indeed shot on film in its entirety.

Btw, this segment from Private Home Videos, which i initally thought were from 16th, seems to have some extra cameras below the stage. But i can't figure out if they are photographers or something else. Also this can be anywhere in England, and as they filmed alot of MITM performances for the sole purpose of including it in Moonwalker, it could only be that one song and not the entire concert.

f2vsya.jpg


The video
[youtube]uN6GLhNdr4Y[/youtube]
 
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IMWhizzle said:
Warren Eagles, colorist of the initial BAD tour montage.
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Thank you for that, i remember there was an article/interview with him awhile ago about the tour, what was shot on film, etc could somebody direct me to that?
 
rsggamer123;3715173 said:
Is there any evidence to suggest this concert was indeed shot on film? Anybody see any film cameras being used? You would think since this was an important concert for MJ there is a good chance this would be one of the concerts shot using film cameras.
Click to expand...
Here is some evidence:

Here is the full version: http://icolorist.com/grading-michael-jackson/

"My first real grading job was on the Michael Jackson Bad tour in 1988, directed by Patrick Kelly. I was an assistant telecine operator at Visions, located in Soho, London. As an assistant I laced the film, loaded the film cleaner and pressed REC on the 1” VTR.

The concert was shot on a mixture of 35mm and 16mm film, it seemed at times they were shooting film for fun! The crew filmed 2 nights out of the 5 Wembley stadium gigs, film was also fed from the earlier tour legs in Australia, Japan, and Europe. As an accompanying piece to the concert, an “on the road” documentary was also filmed at the same time. The concert was cut in a 4 machine 1” online edit suit, not offlined. This was before Avid of FCP offline so the alternative would have been a lowband umatic or ¾ edit. As soon as the film came in from the lab we would be transferring it, feeding the footage on to 2 hungry edit suites.

It is still the biggest music project I have ever been involved with in terms of volume of footage. We would load each negative film lab roll onto the Rank MK111 telecine machine then set the counter to a known sync point on the film. So LR 10 would be TC 10:00:00:00. The sync point would be the start mark on the film leader.

The single “Another part of me” was cut from some of my early telecine work. The music video was cut from footage shot in London and Paris, that shows you how tight Jackson’s performance was. As far as I know the complete concert and documentary has never been released. A disappointing waste as the film managed to capture Jackson at his peak. Jackson never came into Visions during the project but Frank Dileo, his cigar smoking manager, visited a couple of times."
 
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I'm watching it again looking out for the camera operators. Just got up to I'll Be There and so far I've seen a few camera operators, but none that I could tell that were obviously using film cameras. Although I'm no expert. I did just see this though. Two camera operators standing side by side. I found that a little odd. Could mean that one was shooting film and one was shooting for the jumbotron. Or they were just 2 jumbotron shooters that decided to stand next to each other for a a few seconds. Quality isn't good enough for me to tell if they are using different types of cameras. Anyway... will keep watching.

vlcsnap-2012-09-26-21h31m31s11.jpg


Edit: Finished watching it. Didn't really notice anything further. I will say that if this particular concert were shot on film I would expect to see more than one camera man (he was filming for the jumbotron) at the front of the stage. But maybe they were further back or well hidden.
 
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What makes you so sure that THIS concert was filmed?

Warren says 2 out of 5 and isn't giving any dates

Galactus123 said:
The crew filmed 2 nights out of the 5 Wembley stadium gigs, film was also fed from the earlier tour legs in Australia, Japan, and Europe.
Click to expand...
 
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There was more than 5 wembley dates
 
Film cameras are heavier. they are not held on the shoulder like the cams seen on this concert. I havnt checked carefully likw you, if other kind of cam is used. Film cameras are carred by two guys or on stand.
 
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lom kit said:
Film cameras are heavier. they are not held on the shoulder like the cams seen on this concert. I havnt checked carefully likw you, if other kind of cam is used. Film cameras are carred two guys or on stand.
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Ok, well definitely did not notice anything like that. If they were there, they were very well hidden. I think it's likely that they weren't there at this show.
 
Galactus123;3715349 said:
Here is some evidence:

Here is the full version: http://icolorist.com/grading-michael-jackson/

"My first real grading job was on the Michael Jackson Bad tour in 1988, directed by Patrick Kelly. I was an assistant telecine operator at Visions, located in Soho, London. As an assistant I laced the film, loaded the film cleaner and pressed REC on the 1” VTR.

The concert was shot on a mixture of 35mm and 16mm film, it seemed at times they were shooting film for fun! The crew filmed 2 nights out of the 5 Wembley stadium gigs, film was also fed from the earlier tour legs in Australia, Japan, and Europe. As an accompanying piece to the concert, an “on the road” documentary was also filmed at the same time. The concert was cut in a 4 machine 1” online edit suit, not offlined. This was before Avid of FCP offline so the alternative would have been a lowband umatic or ¾ edit. As soon as the film came in from the lab we would be transferring it, feeding the footage on to 2 hungry edit suites.

It is still the biggest music project I have ever been involved with in terms of volume of footage. We would load each negative film lab roll onto the Rank MK111 telecine machine then set the counter to a known sync point on the film. So LR 10 would be TC 10:00:00:00. The sync point would be the start mark on the film leader.

The single “Another part of me” was cut from some of my early telecine work. The music video was cut from footage shot in London and Paris, that shows you how tight Jackson’s performance was. As far as I know the complete concert and documentary has never been released. A disappointing waste as the film managed to capture Jackson at his peak. Jackson never came into Visions during the project but Frank Dileo, his cigar smoking manager, visited a couple of times."
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, although still nowhere does it say that this particular concert was shot on film.
 
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Someone should break out MITM footage from Moonwalker and APOM video and try to look for what sort of film cameras were being used. I'll do it when I have the time. Time to start scouring Bad Tour photo galleries as well haha.
 
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lom kit said:
I've checked red shirt again and here are again two cameras next to eachother. and this two hold two differen cameras.

9f32cf950a.png


this could be the 16mm cameras
https://www.google.de/search?hl=de&...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=8GRkUJCDF4bx4QTsnoHoCw

where the 35mm cameras are bigger and mostly on the crane or stand
https://www.google.de/search?num=10...0.0.0.0.71.71.1.1.0...0.0...1ac.2.g1pQUOz9KIY
Click to expand...


The camera on the right has an eyepiece similar to the ones you find on arri 16mm cameras
 
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MJBT said:
The camera on the right has an eyepiece similar to the ones you find on arri 16mm cameras
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Arriflex 16 SR2 - released in 1982...
Arriflex16SR-2.jpg

Same camera? Hard to tell from that screenshot.
 
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^^
no, the one is more roundly and so angular.
i've checked some of the 88 videos that are in ok quality (more or less) and I only see video cameras. sometimes there are so that could be film cameras, but it could be just the head of the camera man. hard to see.
 
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Yes, I know I'm saying different thing. But at the end they will win.

I did count 4 cam. angles; one is front of the Michael, one is from Mix Tower, one is at left, one is at right. And this is a compilation video, from different times of the live show.




 
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WildStyle said:
Someone should break out MITM footage from Moonwalker and APOM video and try to look for what sort of film cameras were being used. I'll do it when I have the time. Time to start scouring Bad Tour photo galleries as well haha.
Click to expand...

I took some screenshots from the Man in the Mirror performance in Moonwalker where cameramen can be seen:

vlcsnap-2012-09-27-20h31m57s144.png

vlcsnap-2012-09-27-20h36m26s126.png

vlcsnap-2012-09-27-20h46m20s201.png

vlcsnap-2012-09-27-20h44m02s134.png

vlcsnap-2012-09-27-20h48m05s209.png
 
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Here is the video, I did upload






I think it's not for just big screen, also recorded to tapes.
 
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Just spent the last few hours looking at all the Bad Tour photos at mjphotocollectors.com looking for any shots that may have film camera operators in them. This is all I came up with...

01.jpg

03.jpg

04.jpg

05.jpg
 
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WildStyle said:
Just spent the last few hours looking at all the Bad Tour photos at mjphotocollectors.com looking for any shots that may have film camera operators in them. This is all I came up with...
Click to expand...


I just noticed that kind of cameras in Moonwalker MITM in the background:

vlcsnap-2012-09-28-15h29m47s250.png

vlcsnap-2012-09-28-15h30m00s252.png


On the left
 
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can't really tell
01.jpg

03.jpg


this one looks like the camera from APOM above. notice that film cameras are holded alway with two hands. with the second hand to adjust the focus and zoom.
where the video cams are hold with one hand, see pic1 on the right.
next the the white shorts (left) is another camera. (the girl is sexy)
04.jpg


yes it is.
05.jpg


Ok, now we must find out from which date they are. :D

It sure to say, that when two cameras are next to eachouther, one is film camera (mostly).
 
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