Latest on MJJC

Joe's treatment of his children common in black housholds then...?

Crisstti

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
197
Points
0
Location
Chile
Hi,

I don't know if this has been discussed, but I'm having an argument with someone in another forum about this. It's because of Joe asking for money from the estate. I said he doesn't have a right 'cause Michael didn't leave him any and because he abused him as a child. She insists that in a Michael forum in which she posts (not this one, I think) black people there assure her that that was just the common thing in black households at that time. I have to say I find that very hard to believe. But then, I was not alive then, am not from the US, and am not black. So what can you tell me...?.
 
I'm black and I don't know, some did and some didn't. I think that it was common back then, and they didn't see it as abuse, some just thought of it as a way to keep their kids off the streets and from doing drugs and getting killed. That's what I know about it.
 
When the kids did'nt mine there parents they would give there kids a spanking or whooping, the reason was to make the kids behave.
 
Getting a whipping was considered no big deal. When I was little a lot of my cousins got whipped with switches, extention cords, belts, etc. Teachers still paddled kids at school with a board which were called "pops". I remember my fourth grade teacher would hit students on the hand with a wooden spoon. That hurt more than the "pops". It was so common that other kids would laugh at others who got spanked. Some parents would whip their children in front of the class if they got a bad report by the teacher. It was thought that this would embarrass the children into behaving. It wasn't considered abuse as far as I know. It was just discipline.
 
It was certainly not unusual in that era. You must remember Joe was born in 1929 where the after effects of slavery were still prevalent in the lives of Blacks.

Slave masters whipped their slaves when they did not behave. That was the only discipline the black man experienced so he passed it on to his offspring. I am sure the way Joe disciplined his kids is the way his dad, who would have been born on the cusp of slavery did him. In fact in her book Katherine describes Joe's dad as being very strict and that he seldom showed emotion.

These stories are so common in the early Black experience up through the Civil Rights era. It doesn't mean it was right but its origins can be traced back to slavery if you read the historical literature.

It didn't happen in every home but it wasn't strange. In fact, Marlon said on CBS that every family in their neighborhood disciplined that way.

Also, it was legal in public schools for teachers to spank you and that could be a paddle or a belt in your hand or on your rear.

Times have changed but it was what it was.
 
DuranDuran said:
Getting a whipping was considered no big deal. When I was little a lot of my cousins got whipped with switches, extention cords, belts, etc. Teachers still paddled kids at school with a board which were called "pops". I remember my fourth grade teacher would hit students on the hand with a wooden spoon. That hurt more than the "pops". It was so common that other kids would laugh at others who got spanked. Some parents would whip their children in front of the class if they got a bad report by the teacher. It was thought that this would embarrass the children into behaving. It wasn't considered abuse as far as I know. It was just discipline.
Click to expand...

I hear you and know all about it. There were also what I call the "community whippings" The teacher would get you, if Ms. Sue down the street knew about it, she'd whip you too then you got home and got really tore up by mom or dad. The village truly raised you back then. Everybody thought it was their job to keep you on the straight and narrow.

In my neighborhood the boys always got it worse than the girls because parents wanted them to be tough and hold their own in a world that was not very kind to black boys back then.
 
But, as some members wrote on this forum, MJ didn't just got whipped...

I don't remember where it is, but someone talked about Joe putting oil on MJ then whipping him, or putting MJ in a closet or something for hours, etc etc...
Would like this person to post it again..

But I think it's like the 2nd time I see a thread with this title, but I can't find the first one...
 
you cant categorize the whole black race according to Joseph Jackson...
 
of course not! I'm white and I got whipped by my father.

But I think it's the person who was talking to her was saying that it was common among black people...
 
Yea but you have to consider emotional abuse.

I think it's not the physical aspects that made Michael so resentful. It's the coldness, lack of communication between Father and Son. Joe was more of a manager than a Father. He preferred it that way too-hence his own children call him Joseph.

See when I get punished for something I've done, my parents will tell me what I did wrong and assure me that they love me. I dont live in fear of them. I dont suffer any traumas from incessant teasing or lack of self-esteem.

Michael was a bundle of energy when he was a kid. He was so confident back then. Then, during his adolescent years, he just closed up and became very very shy. :(
 
I would just like to add this. My dad was raised int that era. My brother and I both got spanked when we were little and my dad was pretty brutal when he did it. I still cringe to this day when I see a kid getting smack.

However despite that, my dad said for years what Joe did to Michael was abuse. We all live in Gary so the Jackson's story is well known here. This is coming from a man who spanked me hard when I was little. If my dad said Michael suffered from abuse, I believe him.

Although I hate that rabbi with a passion, what Michael describe in those tapes were not just beatings, it was torture. Rubbing oil on a child so the cord would hurt more and hitting them all over their body is abuse, black, white, or yellow.

FYI, we are a black family.
 
Carinemjj said:
But, as some members wrote on this forum, MJ didn't just got whipped...

I don't remember where it is, but someone talked about Joe putting oil on MJ then whipping him, or putting MJ in a closet or something for hours, etc etc...
Would like this person to post it again..
Click to expand...
Tito said once that Joe cut him (Tito) and poured salt in the wound.
MySerenity5 said:
Michael was a bundle of energy when he was a kid. He was so confident back then. Then, during his adolescent years, he just closed up and became very very shy. :(
Click to expand...
I don't think that had to do with beatings per se. Michael said he got acne really bad. He also said that a lot of fans told him that he was ugly and wanted to see "cute little Michael".
 
Ramona122003 said:
Although I hate that rabbi with a passion, what Michael describe in those taps were not just beatings, it was torture. Rubbing oil on a child so the cord would hurt more and hitting them all over their body is abuse, black, white, or yellow.
Click to expand...

That ^^

oh so it's in the Rabbi tapes... I'll have to give it a listen.. still haven't... thanks
 
Carinemjj said:
But, as some members wrote on this forum, MJ didn't just got whipped...

I don't remember where it is, but someone talked about Joe putting oil on MJ then whipping him, or putting MJ in a closet or something for hours, etc etc...
Would like this person to post it again..

But I think it's like the 2nd time I see a thread with this title, but I can't find the first one...
Click to expand...

That is actually how the masters whipped the slaves. I never heard anything about a closet. Was that in shmuley's book. What page?


This is all moot since Michael loved his dad,forgave his dad and in his own words said he was a different man and "very mellow" and a good grandpa. I have to take his word for it and that's always been good enough for me.

But it was nice to have a thread to exchange stories about growing up and cultural differences and similarities. I enjoyed it. Good night.
 
Last edited:
DuranDuran said:
Tito said once that Joe cut him (Tito) and poured salt in the wound.

I don't think that had to do with beatings per se. Michael said he got acne really bad. He also said that a lot of fans told him that he was ugly and wanted to see "cute little Michael".
Click to expand...

Yes. But I imagine that Joe's strict reprimands did not help with this lack of self-esteem either.
 
OldSchoolMJFan said:
That is actually how the masters whipped the slaves. I never heard anything about a closet. Was that in shmuley's book. What page?


This is all moot since Michael loved his dad,forgave his dad and in his own words said he was a different man and "very mellow" and a good grandpa. I have to take his word for it and that's always been good enough for me.

But it was nice to have a thread to exchange stories about growing up and cultural differences and similarities. I enjoyed it. Good night.
Click to expand...



He could had not been that forgiven considering he cut him out of his will, but left his mom in.

Forgiven does not make the past alright, so it is not a moot point. That is like saying a father who molest their children is moot because the children love and forgave him. You would still call a man who does such a thing a monster, so why is Joe free of this. Because hitting and mentally abusing a child is not as bad as molesting them. They still give the same longterm problems. Forgiveness is not get out jail free card.

Joe's abuse, both mentally and physically, left long term scares not just on Michael, but that entire family. Alot of that families problems can be track back to something Joe did to them. So, it is far from a moot point.
 
There was a time when spankings were a common way to discipline children. When I was nine, I learned that at the school I was going to that children used to be hit with a cane in the 1920s etc & I was in England. Hitting children as a way of disciplining them was more acceptable in the past & doesn't have anything to do with race.
 
Ramona122003 said:
He could had not been that forgiven considering he cut him out of his will, but left his mom in.

Forgiven does not make the past alright, so it is not a moot point. That is like saying a father who molest their children is moot because the children love and forgave him. You would still call a man who does such a thing a monster, so why is Joe free of this. Because hitting and mentally abusing a child is not as bad as molesting them. They still give the same longterm problems. Forgiveness is not get out jail free card.

Joe's abuse, both mentally and physically, left long term scares not just on Michael, but that entire family. Alot of that families problems can be track back to something Joe did to them. So, it is far from a moot point.
Click to expand...

:clapping::clapping:

I very much agree with the bolded part.
 
whew im glad this thread has not exploded. kudos to u all for keeping this respectful.

im half....so lemme give u my perspective. u gotta see where they were from. gary indiana is a dangerous place, NOW. back then? u either sell dope, smoke it, or work in themill. he wanted more for his kids, he kept them in line by fear. many parents do but it's driven by LOVE. the latter does NOT apply to joe.

case in point? when they got to encino, he stopped w/ the phisical and started w/ the emotional and mental. he abused for abuse sake. it became less of a control issue to help his boys nadm ore of a control issue to keep them in the group and makingmoney for him.

so while the switch or thebelt may be common in some households, when the meaning or use for it has passed and that behaviour is still going on, it's just straight abuse.
 
Joe's abuse was extreme even for a black household. We received physical punishment for deliberately disobeying our parents. Michael and his brothers would get beat for missing a dance step.

I believe the mental abuse was just as bad if not worse. This part is not common in black or white households. It was reported that one time when they were performing in a strip club that Joe told Michael that there were white men in the audience with guns and they would shoot him if he didn't dance fast enough. Joe also used to climb into the children's bedroom with a scary mask and wake them up and terrify them. He claimed that this was supposed to teach them not to sleep with the windows open. Michael has said that as a result he had nightmares even as an adult and was afraid to sleep in the dark.

Joe also used to walk around their Encino home with automatic weapons and yell about how he's been treated wrong. This was around the time that Michael fired him.

Joe was a monster.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top