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Jerkins gave Neptunes demos to Michael

Hot_Street

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I used to think that Michael never heard the Neptunes' demos because his team didn't give them to him.
He spoke about Michael and how he taught him about publishing. He also confirmed that he personally gave the demos of Neptunes, the Justin Timberlake’s Justified album, to Michael and Michael refused it saying it was too “generic”. Darkchild also talked how Michael was interested in inventing new sounds.
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www.mjvibe.com

Rodney Jerkins speaks about Michael in new interview - MJVibe

Rodney Jerkins just did a rare interview with Donwill for "The Almanac of Rap" and talk working with the King of Pop Michael Jackson.
www.mjvibe.com www.mjvibe.com
 
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Ronald Stain said:
Michael Jackson wanted to sound like electricity? :oops: So, this is how they invented songs like Heartbreaker and 2000 Watts
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Yes, I've never heard of the electricity thing. Could be for Heartbreaker.
And the intro of Invincible sounds like junkyard.
 
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Hot_Street said:
Yes, I've never heard of the electricity thing. Could be for Heartbreaker.
And the intro of Invincible sounds like junkyard.
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That is because Rodney Jerkins literally went to the junkyard in order to record new sounds for that album:

"Michael Jackson told me to go to the junkyard and hit on things and make sounds" (Rodney Jerkins)
 
mj_frenzy said:
That is because Rodney Jerkins literally went to the junkyard in order to find and record new sounds for that album:

"Michael Jackson told me to go to the junkyard and hit on things and make sounds" (Rodney Jerkins)
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I already knew this quote, but I was wondering how this sound should be interpreted in connection with the lyrics for Invincible
perhaps in the sense that he is treated like junk by her
 
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Hot_Street said:
I already knew this quote, but I was wondering how this sound should be interpreted in connection with the lyrics for Invincible
perhaps in the sense that he is treated like junk by her
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Hilarious, I always used to consider Invincible sounding as something expensive and precious - "Diamonds and Pearls" - is best phrase to describe sounds of this album, but in reallity we have the fact, that album samples were made of junk and garbadge 😂 Ironically
 
Derek1984 said:
Same, but I can understand why Michael passed. IMO, those grooves were better suited for JT. The lyrics are weak, but I would assume MJ would've made them better.
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Idk, I think he would've slid on those beats lol. Lyrics, they're not high art like Smooth Criminal. But Are they really that much weaker than what he came up with on Invincible?
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I really wish Michael had accepted those Neptune's songs.
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Me too. And I guess most people wanted MJ to go back to the sounds of OTW and Thriller. But I can also understand he wanted to be seen as an innovator and not recycling his own style.. For Justin Timberlake et al. it might have been 'new' but for MJ it would have been 'back'.

He probably thought the future was in Timbaland's (already dated by the time) broken beats and R'n'B but I guess he understimated that people rather wanted retro-soul for the 2000's
 
Derek1984 said:
Same, but I can understand why Michael passed. IMO, those grooves were better suited for JT. The lyrics are weak, but I would assume MJ would've made them better.
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Listening to those songs again, I can imagine Mike sprinkling his magic on those tracks and taking them to another level.

They're still some of the best songs in JT's catalogue 20 odd years on
 
Lyrics would have been definitely better compared to 2000 Watts though
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
Listening to those songs again, I can imagine Mike sprinkling his magic on those tracks and taking them to another level.

They're still some of the best songs in JT's catalogue 20 odd years on
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Those songs are the main reason JT still has a career at all TBH. I like most of everything he did but that just feels like facts.
 
Victorious said:
Me too. And I guess most people wanted MJ to go back to the sounds of OTW and Thriller. But I can also understand he wanted to be seen as an innovator and not recycling his own style.. For Justin Timberlake et al. it might have been 'new' but for MJ it would have been 'back'.

He probably thought the future was in Timbaland's (already dated by the time) broken beats and R'n'B but I guess he understimated that people rather wanted retro-soul for the 2000's
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I’ve been thinking about this for quite some time. This must have been somewhat frustrating for Michael because almost every collaborator that Michael wanted to work with in his later years, and even those he did work with, always went on about how they wanted to take it back to the “Off The Wall Sound.” Michael was always about pushing it and trying new things and discovering new sounds. Retreading old grounds was probably the last thing he wanted to do.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I’ve been thinking about this for quite some time. This must have been somewhat frustrating for Michael because almost every collaborator that Michael wanted to work with in his later years, and even those he did work with, always went on about how they wanted to take it back to the “Off The Wall Sound.” Michael was always about pushing it and trying new things and discovering new sounds. Retreading old grounds was probably the last thing he wanted to do.
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He has developed his sound, but not so much his themes. YRMW can be seen as a new version of RWY, WMCIG as a new version of WATW, Unbreakable as a new version of Bad, Cry as a new version of MITM, etc.
For this reason, he should have liked the Neptunes' songs because they deal with familiar themes, but they sound new.
Personally, I think YRMW is better than Justin's RYB, but RYB sounds somehow more youthful. It's probably the song that the late Michael would have needed to be well received by the youth of 2001 again.
 
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Hot_Street said:
He has developed his sound, but not so much his themes. YRMW can be seen as a new version of RWY, WMCIG as a new version of WATW, Unbreakable as a new version of Bad, Cry as a new version of MITM, etc.
For this reason, he should have liked the Neptunes' songs because they deal with familiar themes, but they sound new.
Personally, I think YRMW is better than Justin's RYB, but RYB sounds somehow more youthful. It's probably the song that the late Michael would have needed to be well received by the youth of 2001 again.
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Unbreakable sounds more like newer version of Scream. And I think WMCIG has nothing to do with WATW
 
Hot_Street said:
He has developed his sound, but not so much his themes. YRMW can be seen as a new version of RWY, WMCIG as a new version of WATW, Unbreakable as a new version of Bad, Cry as a new version of MITM, etc.
For this reason, he should have liked the Neptunes' songs because they deal with familiar themes, but they sound new.
Personally, I think YRMW is better than Justin's RYB, but RYB sounds somehow more youthful. It's probably the song that the late Michael would have needed to be well received by the youth of 2001 again.
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I’m not quite sure what you mean by saying that he didn’t develop his themes but imma go ahead and say that I disagree with this mate. Of course throughout a career that spans four decades there are bound to be songs that deal with similar things.MJ’s themes were very diverse. His themes deal with anger, injustice, loneliness, racism, Depression, spirituality, infidelity, religion, abandonment, neglect, murder, drugs, prostitution etc.

I think RYB would have done the same as RWY did for Michael. I, personally, dthink RYB is an okay song. Nowhere near the quality of RWY and I think it’s a good thing he didn’t record that song.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I’m not quite sure what you mean by saying that he didn’t develop his themes but imma go ahead and say that I disagree with this mate. Of course throughout a career that spans four decades there are bound to be songs that deal with similar things.MJ’s themes were very diverse. His themes deal with anger, injustice, loneliness, racism, Depression, spirituality, infidelity, religion, abandonment, neglect, murder, drugs, prostitution etc.
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He undoubtedly had a variety of topics, but I was referring specifically to the time when he was offered the Neptunes songs, see above. And during this time, particularly on Invincible, he obviously repeated himself thematically. But this is probably quite natural after such a long career. In any case, there would have been nothing wrong with recording the Neptunes songs, even if they were similar to the sound of Off the Wall.
 
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Hot_Street said:
He undoubtedly had a variety of topics, but I was referring specifically to the time when he was offered the Neptunes songs, see above. And during this time, particularly on Invincible, he obviously repeated himself thematically. But this is probably quite natural after such a long career. In any case, there would have been nothing wrong with recording the Neptunes songs, even if they were similar to the sound of Off the Wall.
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Ahh now I get what you mean. I agree with you. On Vince it got to the point where it did feel a bit redundant. But here is the thing regarding the Neptunes situation, Michael did in fact record many songs with at least an organic/ “vintage” feel like Heaven Can’t wait, Butterflies, Break of Dawn, You Rock My World, and there’s probably a lot more we haven’t heard. So maybe the issue wasn’t about not wanting to revisit the sound of Off The Wall but instead just not liking the Neptunes songs.
 
I don't understand, why people here talking about, that in Invincible Michael tried to get back to OTW times and make something similar. In a way of tracklist and lyrics - yes. Most of songs are love ballads. But in the way of vibe and sounding, hell no, it has nothing to do with OTW. For me Invincible sounds like mix of Dangerous and History - beatboxing, rough guitar parts and raspy vocals. Most songs about women, but that's the only thing that OTW and Invnicible have in common
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Ahh now I get what you mean. I agree with you. On Vince it got to the point where it did feel a bit redundant. But here is the thing regarding the Neptunes situation, Michael did in fact record many songs with at least an organic/ “vintage” feel like Heaven Can’t wait, Butterflies, Break of Dawn, You Rock My World, and there’s probably a lot more we haven’t heard. So maybe the issue wasn’t about not wanting to revisit the sound of Off The Wall but instead just not liking the Neptunes songs.
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In my opinion these Neptunes songs are not distinctive and special enough, they don't really stand out. They're just nice songs that anyone could have sung. Michael's singing skills would have raised their quality, that's for sure.
 
I didn't watch the interview, but why is Jerkins presenting work from another producer? Why would Rodney give MJ work from another producer that might end up costing him money if MJ liked the songs and wanted to work more with the Neptunes instead? Seems like the Neptunes never had a chance?
 
Ronald Stain said:
I don't understand, why people here talking about, that in Invincible Michael tried to get back to OTW times and make something similar. In a way of tracklist and lyrics - yes. Most of songs are love ballads. But in the way of vibe and sounding, hell no, it has nothing to do with OTW. For me Invincible sounds like mix of Dangerous and History - beatboxing, rough guitar parts and raspy vocals. Most songs about women, but that's the only thing that OTW and Invnicible have in common
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That's what Bruno Mars mostly does, making retro sounding music and he's one of the biggest artists of today. Silk Sonic is 1970s R&B. Some of Bruno's song lyrics are Morris Day (1980s funk singer) style bragging (That's What I Like, Uptown Funk, 24K Magic, etc.). Some of Lizzo's songs sound 1980s. Adele & Amy Winehouse are also popular and basically sound like older music. There's always some retro act that gets some mainstream popularity. In the 1980s there was The Stray Cats who sounded like 1950s rockabilly. In the 1990s, there was what was called "acid jazz" (Brand New Heavies, Jamiroquai, Igcognito) and also 1930s & 1940s style swing (Cherry Poppin' Daddies, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Harry Connick Jr). More recently there was Michael Bublé who was doing Dean Martin style crooner music.
 
I guess there are tons of possibilities:

He would copy his own 70's/80s style
Maybe MJ never got the Neptunes songs
He already signed with Jerkins
He wanted Jerkins to do all because he was recommended by Carole Bayer Sager
Jerkins already proved he was a hit machine
The Neptunes demo's weren't as good as the final songs
He thought they were too retro since a lot of Neptunes stuff copies (not just inspired by) old Sugarhill/Kool & The Gang etc.
The Neptunes had little proof of doing songs with the themes and impact MJ wanted (pathos, drama, orchestra's, anger)

Etc..?
 
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When where those songs supposedly presented to MJ? Before or after the accident in Munich?
 
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