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How much did Michael know about music theory?

Themidwestcowboy

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I already know he didn't read music but is there any knowledge to as much he knew about music theory?
 
I think he knew about it a lot. When you watch the Mexico deposition in 1993, he is asked about "what is a bridge" and he explains what it is and what is its role in a song etc. To me that seemed like he was very conscious about the structure of a song. On the other hand, like he said, he let the song create itself, so the creation of a song was also instinctive.
 
Keep in mind that he worked with a lot of great musicians since he was a little kid to his final days.

I bet he definitely knew about music theory even if he didn't read notes.
 
Lucilla said:
Keep in mind that he worked with a lot of great musicians since he was a little kid to his final days.

I bet he definitely knew about music theory even if he didn't read notes.
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That was what i was thinkin too. He had been in the music industry since he was five, i bet he knew alot more than we believe.
elena Andare Avanti said:
My video -


I see how he read notes.
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Oh yeah, but is he really reading the notes or just reading the lyrics?
 
Probably not that much, it doesn't in anyway diminish him as an artist though. I guess he will have just known the basics, like what a time signature is, what a chord is, what a rhythm is, a melody, harmony (multiple parts). Basically everything you need to construct a song. I doubt he was good with notation or could read any advanced level sheet music. And in the picture above, why would he need to read the notes, he created the vocal melody! he's probably just reading the lyrics. Probably some basics of keys aswell, he will have probably known what keys his songs were in as he's have had to instruct the band what he wanted when he did the songs live (the keys would often change). Like i say, it won't have been nothing, but i can just tell like in this is it, the way you make me feel, he could sum up what he's trying to say about the wrong keyboard part in one second if he was fluid in music theory language, i can just tell that he wasn't so much. Besides, i doubt he was really that interested in doing so, it's clear to me he was maybe apprehensive about knowing too much as i'll bet he felt it would have restricted his song writing by constraining it with it's clear rules and technical, none emotive or artistic language. Honestly though, i must stress that it doesn't in anyway diminish him as an artist. I'm pretty sure i know a lot more music theory than MJ did, but i can promise you this, i will never write songs of that quality and neither will a lot of fully trained musicians.
 
MJultimatemusiclegen said:
Probably not that much, it doesn't in anyway diminish him as an artist though. I guess he will have just known the basics, like what a time signature is, what a chord is, what a rhythm is, a melody, harmony (multiple parts). Basically everything you need to construct a song. I doubt he was good with notation or could read any advanced level sheet music. And in the picture above, why would he need to read the notes, he created the vocal melody! he's probably just reading the lyrics. Probably some basics of keys aswell, he will have probably known what keys his songs were in as he's have had to instruct the band what he wanted when he did the songs live (the keys would often change). Like i say, it won't have been nothing, but i can just tell like in this is it, the way you make me feel, he could sum up what he's trying to say about the wrong keyboard part in one second if he was fluid in music theory language, i can just tell that he wasn't so much. Besides, i doubt he was really that interested in doing so, it's clear to me he was maybe apprehensive about knowing too much as i'll bet he felt it would have restricted his song writing by constraining it with it's clear rules and technical, none emotive or artistic language. Honestly though, i must stress that it doesn't in anyway diminish him as an artist. I'm pretty sure i know a lot more music theory than MJ did, but i can promise you this, i will never write songs of that quality and neither will a lot of fully trained musicians.
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Is what I believe also. I think he knew at least the basic in music theory.
When you work all your life with different musicians you have to learn to talk about it even when that's not your intention :D
 
popcorn-MJ.gif
 
MJultimatemusiclegen said:
Probably not that much, it doesn't in anyway diminish him as an artist though. I guess he will have just known the basics, like what a time signature is, what a chord is, what a rhythm is, a melody, harmony (multiple parts). Basically everything you need to construct a song. I doubt he was good with notation or could read any advanced level sheet music. And in the picture above, why would he need to read the notes, he created the vocal melody! he's probably just reading the lyrics. Probably some basics of keys aswell, he will have probably known what keys his songs were in as he's have had to instruct the band what he wanted when he did the songs live (the keys would often change). Like i say, it won't have been nothing, but i can just tell like in this is it, the way you make me feel, he could sum up what he's trying to say about the wrong keyboard part in one second if he was fluid in music theory language, i can just tell that he wasn't so much. Besides, i doubt he was really that interested in doing so, it's clear to me he was maybe apprehensive about knowing too much as i'll bet he felt it would have restricted his song writing by constraining it with it's clear rules and technical, none emotive or artistic language. Honestly though, i must stress that it doesn't in anyway diminish him as an artist. I'm pretty sure i know a lot more music theory than MJ did, but i can promise you this, i will never write songs of that quality and neither will a lot of fully trained musicians.
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:agree:wonderfully said here... Knowing the basics is always handy but yep, you have to leave some things in the hands of God if it comes to creating...
 
I'm pretty sure he didn't know much about music theory (based on stories from Teddy Riley and what can be inferred from Quincy Jones interviews). It's always annoyed me for two reasons. One, his lack of technical knowledge is sometimes used against him to make it seem like he was less of an artist (which is idiotic because a creative act like making music or art in general and executing a set of difficult technical moves on an instrument are not at all the same thing). Two, he might have benefited from studying music theory in more detail. It seemed like he wanted to write orchestral/symphonic music but I think it's hard to move from pop music, even considering how complicated his version of pop music was, into composing for a traditional orchestra which is really on a different level of composition. It might have broadened what he did with melodies and harmonies in his pop songs as well. I guess I think of it as one small area where he didn't fully exploit his talents. It would have been cool to see where he could go creatively with more "ammunition" in his composing arsenal.
 
I actually think he must have picked a huge amount along the way. People like Quincy Jones and Seth Riggs seem to talk theory along the way - no way he didn't pick up on these things. He talks about "tempo" in TII etc - so I'm under the impression that the Mexico Deposition was WAAAAAAY over the top in terms of "I have no idea about sheet music" - for legalese reasons. Because 5 minutes later he can explain the bridge of a song quite professorial.

He may not be able to explain Beethoven's Sonatenhauptsatzform in a symphony - but I'm sure he "got" the symphony, if you know what I mean?
In any way, Michael inspires me to improve my own sight reading abilities - and hey, inspiration is the greatest teaching tool to have existed.

Just listening to Is It Scary and Little Susie tells me a lot.

And btw, Michael is the only composer that I know who is able to use a modulation in sense to make it seem TIMELESS - just listen to Earth Song. You don't get that dated "80ies" feel - now that's someone who uses theory with a surefire instinct.
 
The fact that Michael could compose music without the help of any instrument and without the knowledge of sheet music is really incredible and it only adds to his genius. There are instrumentalist out there who work really hard trying to master playing an instrument and trying to master how to read sheet music and they will never come up with anything as great as Michael did. Infact alot of the instrumenalist who have played on Michael's albums throughout the years have said that Michael came up with ideas that they never would have thought of
 
Michael was in the musicbusiness for 45 years and he was a man who wanted to learn things.
 
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