Disputed time in Jackson death could be key in potential case against doc

Agent M

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By Thomas Watkins, The Associated Press

LOS ANGELES - A key point of contention has emerged in the case investigators are piecing together about the death of Michael Jackson: Exactly when did Dr. Conrad Murray realize that his patient had stopped breathing?


There are currently two accounts of that moment on June 25, and about an hour separates them.


According to police documents, Murray told detectives he put Jackson to sleep with drugs just minutes before he found the singer not breathing around 11 a.m., then let nearly 90 minutes go by - much of that time on his cellphone - before an ambulance was called.


But Murray's lawyer says the doctor didn't discover a stricken Jackson until around noon.


Investigators have ruled Jackson's death a homicide, based on tests showing he was killed by the combination of the anesthetic propofol with at least two sedatives, a law enforcement official told The Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity because the finding has not been publicly released.


The homicide designation does not necessarily mean a crime was committed, though it's a helpful starting point should prosecutors choose to seek criminal charges. Police have said Murray is the target of an investigation into manslaughter, defined as a homicide without malice or premeditation.


Murray told police he spent the morning of June 25 administering various sedatives to Jackson in an attempt to get him to sleep, according to an affidavit for a search warrant served last month on Murray's clinic in Houston. Unsuccessful in inducing rest, the doctor ultimately gave in to the singer's demands for a dose of propofol around 10:40 a.m.


By 11 a.m., after a short trip to the bathroom, Murray said he saw Jackson was not breathing and began trying to revive him, both with a "rescue" drug and by performing CPR, according to the documents. An ambulance was not called until 12:21 p.m. and Murray spent much of the intervening time making non-emergency cellphone calls, police say.


That timeline is flawed, said Murray's attorney, Edward Chernoff, who was present when investigators spent three hours interviewing the doctor June 27. Chernoff said Murray never told police he found Jackson not breathing at 11 a.m. - instead, it was more like noon.


"Their theory is he came back and wasn't breathing. That's not what Dr. Murray told them," Chernoff said Tuesday. "They are confusing the time Michael Jackson went to sleep with the time he stopped breathing."


Chernoff did not provide additional detail about what Murray had told police.


Home use of propofol is virtually unheard of - safe administration requires lifesaving equipment and a trained anesthesiologist monitoring the patient at all times. While the 25 mg dose Murray said he gave Jackson was relatively small, its combination with the sedatives lorazepam and midazolam proved deadly.


Even if Murray found Jackson around noon, he still waited too long to call an ambulance, said one medical expert, adding that anyone - including doctors - should make calling an ambulance their first priority.


"In a situation like that, time is life," said Dr. Douglas Zipes, an Indiana University heart specialist and past president of the American College of Cardiology. "It's got to be immediate or you are going to lose the individual."


Phone records show Murray spent 47 minutes between 11:18 and 12:05 making three personal calls. One of the calls was to one of Murray's offices, Chernoff said, adding that the doctor never told investigators about the calls because he wasn't asked about them.


At 12:13 p.m., Murray made a four-second call to Jackson's personal assistant, Michael Amir Williams, pleading for help, Williams' attorney Carl Douglas said. Within two minutes, Williams called Alberto Alvarez, Jackson's bodyguard, with a similar plea.


Douglas, who also represents Alvarez, said the bodyguard hurried to the top floor of Jackson's rented mansion, a private sanctum where staff were not normally allowed, and assisted a confused-looking Murray as he frantically tried to revive Jackson. It was Alvarez that placed the 911 call at 12:21 p.m.

Douglas said Alvarez might be able to shed some light on Murray's actions but, two months after the death, police investigators had still not formally interviewed his client and had only spoken fleetingly with him at the hospital immediately after Jackson was pronounced dead.

Douglas said he was "dismayed at the seeming haphazard manner investigators have gone about obtaining information."

Deputy Police Chief Charlie Beck declined to comment, citing the continuing investigation.

Chernoff did not provide additional detail about what Murray had told police. Early on in the case, the lawyer released a statement saying his client didn't give any drugs that "should have" killed Jackson. Asked to elaborate on the statement, Chernoff said: "I stand by that assertion and I believe that will be borne out in time."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090826/entertainment/us_michael_jackson_investigation
 
the LAPD better have that interview on tape or a written signed statement
 
We need to know time of death but according to another report earlier today, the coroner was not able to establish time of death.
 
On the Today Show, they said that police said that murray's cell phone records indicate that he made a total of 3 phone calls lasting a total of about 47 minutes before an ambulance was called. The police NEED to be finding out who in the world he could have been talking to like that before he called the ambulance. Seems like they would be co-conspiritors to me.

Murray should have had a mirror under MJ's nose or had him hooked up to something to monitor his breathing, not on the phone if all thesemedications were so dangerous.
 
"Douglas said Alvarez might be able to shed some light on Murray's actions but, two months after the death, police investigators had still not formally interviewed his client and had only spoken fleetingly with him at the hospital immediately after Jackson was pronounced dead.

Douglas said he was "dismayed at the seeming haphazard manner investigators have gone about obtaining information." "

:no:
 
On the Today Show, they said that police said that murray's cell phone records indicate that he made a total of 3 phone calls lasting a total of about 47 minutes before an ambulance was called. The police NEED to be finding out who in the world he could have been talking to like that before he called the ambulance. Seems like they would be co-conspiritors to me.

I agree.
 
i wanna know who these 3 phonecalls were made to that could indicate whether murray had already found mj or not. also the same re his lockup being cleaned out. do they have records of him making a call around 9am to houston.now if they want to leak something they can leak that
 
Phone records show Murray spent 47 minutes between 11:18 and 12:05 making three personal calls. One of the calls was to one of Murray's offices, Chernoff said, adding that the doctor never told investigators about the calls because he wasn't asked about them.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090826/entertainment/us_michael_jackson_investigation

'Wasn't asked about them'!! He should have told them anyway as he didn't he is withholding the truth about what happened in the last hours of Michael's life.
 
the police aren going to ask when they didnt even know about them. thats what getting hold of phone records is for. add obstruction of justice to the charges.
 
Douglas said Alvarez might be able to shed some light on Murray's actions but, two months after the death, police investigators had still not formally interviewed his client and had only spoken fleetingly with him at the hospital immediately after Jackson was pronounced dead.

Douglas said he was "dismayed at the seeming haphazard manner investigators have gone about obtaining information."

oh bloody brilliant

from all the info we have.. it looks like murray found MJ as early as around 9am... given the calls to houston
 
u know i sometimes whish if this were to have happened it would have been in London.with a slight less inept police force
 
u know i sometimes whish if this were to have happened it would have been in London.with a slight less inept police force

That is a reason I feel in my mind I can't rule out this being planned, I don't think they'd have got away with it here in the UK(I'm not by any means saying our Police are perfect btw) I just feel the LAPD are unbelievably awful 'if' the reports we hear are true,I know they may not be but if they are... what are they playing at?! the whole world is watching how they deal with this.
 
That is a reason I feel in my mind I can't rule out this being planned, I don't think they'd have got away with it here in the UK(I'm not by any means saying our Police are perfect btw) I just feel the LAPD are unbelievably awful 'if' the reports we hear are true,I know they may not be but if they are... what are they playing at?! the whole world is watching how they deal with this.

i cant rule out this being planned either

if i'd have heard anyone thinking this a few weeks ago.. i'd say theyd lost their flipping mind.. and are indulging in psycho fan talk. but something very dodgy went on... the whole AEG deal smells bad.. theres so many questions
 
it was from tmz but they have a estimated time from the medics. but it certainly doesnt help if true
 
There are so many lies that have been told that Murray and his lawyer cannot even agree on what time Murray found Michael. There should be a signed statement from Murray about what happened that day and I am sure the LAPD already have that. If they dont then some down at the LAPD screw*d up
 
"Douglas said Alvarez might be able to shed some light on Murray's actions but, two months after the death, police investigators had still not formally interviewed his client and had only spoken fleetingly with him at the hospital immediately after Jackson was pronounced dead.

Douglas said he was "dismayed at the seeming haphazard manner investigators have gone about obtaining information." "

:no:

That's just plain ridiculous is'nt it?:doh:

From the get go this whole thing was screwed up and if you ask me, I think the LAPD's focus is more about finding those doctors who were breaching the law instead of giving a damn who actually killed Michael Jackson!

All we've been getting are 'leaks' whats true and whats not? its not like the LAPD then is trying to stop these leaks if they are true but at the same time they are'nt saying anything either!

I'm getting so damn angry as the days go by it not even funny!
 
I find it almost impossible to believe that the police only spoke to the guy who made the 911 call briefly at the hospital. He may have been able to shed some light on the timing BUT it should have been done immediately before anyone could influence him and whilst things were still fresh in his mind! Unbelieveable, this is THE Michael Jackson after all, just bloody unbelieveable!!!
 
I think the police need to get the phone records for every call that was made from midnight till the time that the ambulance arrived at the hospital. And that is if they want to save what's left of their integrity regarding this investigation. I think the whole thing was bungled from the start of the probe into Michael's death. They need to buckle down and fix this mess. Period.
 
i think more than ever they are planning to charge him with manslaughter maximum , although second degree murder is the appropriate charge. as someone said they are looking for more information about mj's past addictions , which means more dirt , more information to be included in book deals and to be talked about on tv shows.

to think they left the house with out securing the scene , they knew about Murray's bag from murray , means they did not even search the house . and now it has been two months since the death, they did not question appropriately the 911 caller . they have no exact time of death , THEY HAVE NOTHING as Lisa Bloom said it is not unusual for police department to ask the coroner to held autopsy results , it is simply UNHEARD OF , and very damaging to the prosecution case . now we know why , because they have no case .
 
"Douglas said Alvarez might be able to shed some light on Murray's actions but, two months after the death, police investigators had still not formally interviewed his client and had only spoken fleetingly with him at the hospital immediately after Jackson was pronounced dead.

Douglas said he was "dismayed at the seeming haphazard manner investigators have gone about obtaining information." "

:no:
For those of you who persist in having "faith" in the LAPD's investigative skills, and think all these delays are because they are "building a case?" This should be a HINT that such faith is unwarranted. In my opinion.
 
I am going to be more optimistic and say they are gathering their evidence, hopefully they are trying to get all their ducks in a row. They have a lot of leaks and distractions to worry about. I am ggona try to give them the benefit of the doubt. It keeps me from going nuts.
 
Ain't this ah bout NOTHING!

I really hope the jackson family gets a GOOD P.I. and just let lapd's work be bonus. because this is just sad! NO freakin justic.

I honestly believe us mjjc fans (if given authority) could bust this case wide open MUCH better then stupid lapd. UGH! the highest. im disgusted.
 
I am going to be more optimistic and say they are gathering their evidence, hopefully they are trying to get all their ducks in a row. They have a lot of leaks and distractions to worry about. I am ggona try to give them the benefit of the doubt. It keeps me from going nuts.

Sigh. Sadly, I think a few of their "ducks" are going to migrate south for the winter, or permanently. Brazil, possibly? (sorry, Brazilians on the forum!)
 
If the LAPD lapse then we will have to do something about this..I Will give them the benefit of the doubt and think that they are gathering evidence.
 
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