Did the name '' Susie '' Have a deeper meaning?

Themidwestcowboy

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I Was listening to some songs yesterday and i couldent help but notice that Michael used the name susie in alot of songs.

Blood On the Dancefloor
Little Susie
Superfly sister

There are probably more cant remember all of them.

What does these three tracks have in common? They are Pretty dark. The name susie always seems to come up when its about somethin dark, wrong, etc etc.
Was susie just a random name he wanted to use on these songs or did the name had a deeper meaning? of course we can never know, but feel free to speculate!
 
Maybe it's the irony? I don't know. Susie is a bright name, if you think about it phonetically, it's sue-sie. Your voice goes up when you say it, thus why I describe it as 'bright.' There's no depression in the pronunciation, it's almost child-like. For me, at least, it evokes pictures of innocence, which is why "Little Susie" is such a powerful song--it's the destruction of innocence. It wouldn't work quite as well if it was "Little Darla", or "Little Olga." I know I'm probably not making any sense, but that's what I think.

As for "Superfly Sister", it seems to me as though Susie's the one who's abstaining from 'doing it,' since she's keeping Johnny "on his knees," "getting the boy and making him wait," etc. She, and Mother, seem to be the counter to the promiscuous Brother, Sister, and "He," who seems to be a predatory creature and possibly a danger to Susie. That supports the Susie=innocent hypothesis.

Blood on the Dance Floor is, of course, the exact opposite. In this song, Susie is the predator and not the victim like in the last two songs. Again, though, as the song's title implies--it's not a regular scenario. People don't expect to find blood when they go dancing, nor do they generally associate dance floors with murder. The dance floor is generally seen as a positive thing, a place to have a good time, so to stain it with blood and murder would be to tarnish it, in a way. Thus, the Susie in this song can be equated with the dance floor, because she's been 'corrupted' by her predatory nature. She passes herself off as a good thing, as a "friend," but is in fact a wolf in sheep's clothing who murders the men she seduces. The name Susie, then, is still one associated with innocence, even if this particular Susie is anything but--she uses the name to hide her image, a false front of innocence. Not many grown women, after all, tend to go by 'Susie.' By the time they reach adulthood, they usually stick to 'Susan', or 'Sue', to project a more adult image and distance themselves from their childhood self. By choosing to go as 'Susie', the woman in this scene is projecting a more innocent image. We can deduce she is at least 18-21 years old, because that's generally how old one has to be to go dancing at clubs.

Furthermore, Susie is actually short form for "Susan." It's not a real name, but a nickname, usually given to young girls, as I said. The meaning of the name "Susan" is Lily, a flower most often associated with purity (especially white lilies) and death. In pre-Christian times, Lilies were associated with sexuality (we could see how this could tie in to both SS and BOTDF.) However, in the Bible and Christian theology, Lilies are a symbol of purity, and we could see how that would be important for Little Susie, and even Superfly Sister, since the latter song is about sex and the loss of purity.
 
Mikage, I really love your interpretation !
 
Yeah, Mikage, awesome 'painting' of words you just did..

Since this name is used to describe girls/women from both the evil (in Heartbreak Hotel, he sings "We came to this place, where the vicious dwell, / And found that wicked women run this strange hotel, / There was Sefra and Sue [...]") and the innocent side, it is a prototype of two type of people: those women (groupies, for instance) who lived to seduce and cause lust in men, in him also (hence calling them wicked, vicious, dangerous, bad etc) and that innocent part (big part) of him inside that he clings onto... God forbid if Michael was submitted to .. some things he couldn't control in his childhood/preteen age (not going to delve in this deeper, other than say it's Joseph related..), hence he felt the need to create something like "Little Susie".. which, in my opinion, not only refers to abused and neglected children, but to himself, or his anima, his heart, one who felt all that, and that figuratively killed him inside {'Neglection cam kill like a knife in your soul, oh, it will..'}. And all his life he tried to cling onto his innocent part, hence him often speaking of his association with Peter Pan, with forever living in the childhood he was robbed of. Although he was a man, a strong, wonderful man, he was a strong, wonderful child also, and he mourns for hurt children, because he himself was hurt as a child. One of his conclusions in 'Walk Right Now', again a song about a prototype woman/a specific one, who didn't know what purity meant, and he himself said he loved purity: "To love as friends, I wish that we could see, / But persuasive heart, you just won't let pure friendship be." He yearned for real friendship, even moreso having been burned a whole lot by the total opposite with the heinous betrayals on behalf of many.
 
I Was listening to some songs yesterday and i couldent help but notice that Michael used the name susie in alot of songs.

Was susie just a random name he wanted to use on these songs or did the name had a deeper meaning? of course we can never know, but feel free to speculate!

It's my name. Says it all :wub::wub: :lol:

Mikage I like your interpretation but I'm not sure if Michael really dug that deep to come up with the name. It could be that he figured "Annie" would be lame since he'd already used it :)lol:) so he went for something else that sounded 'nice'. LOL
 
^He uses it over and over again, though, so that the name becomes a symbol. He didn't re-use Diana or Annie the way he used Susie. Moreover, Susie's the only one who is painted with thorough detail, in Little Susie, and in BOTDF. She takes a secondary role in SS, but even then, she is distinguished by her purity in making the boy wait, in contrast to the rest of the song's characters. Additionally, Susie is the only one who is painted in a positive light--fighting hard to live in Little Susie and being purity in Superfly Sister. Diana is painted out to be overly agressively and predatory (like BOTDF Susie), and Annie is by far the most passive of them all--she did not even fight to live, like Susie did.

So, the fact that Susie is the name he uses over and over again, and the only one whose bearers are mostly portrayed in a positive light (even BOTDF's Susie is a 'false' positive--she manages to pass off as a friend, whereas both Diana and the Dangerous girl are immediately seen for what they are), would tell me that Michael must have felt some attachment towards it. Had he only used it once, I would be more willing to entertain that it's a coincidence--but since he uses it the most, I am inclined to think he thought it was significant. We'll never truly know, though.
 
Yes, Susie was in the Schutzstaffel. Lol.

No, I was just too lazy to type up "Superfly Sister." As for the link, WTH. Some link from that Auschwitz site (not your link, but one on the index page) took me to some scammy-looking site. :bugeyed I wonder if someone hacked it?
 
Listen to the songs and what he is saying.. I am sure there is a meaning. Little Susie is an innocent song, while the others are about women ruling and hurting others...so...do the math. Guess it's not a good name or maybe he attaches it to a bad person, but then Little Susie refutes that.... maybe he just likes the way it rolls off his tongue :p
 
I have noticed his frequent use of this name also and have wondered what it meant to him. Good question. Michael was so mysterious.

Just an aside, though my name is spelled a little differently I have always felt silly using it as a nickname as an adult because I associate it with being a little girl's name. But I think Suzanne sounds too formal so I just tell people to call me Suzy.
 
I do think that his lyrics sometimes have "hidden messages", and that sometimes, certain things are not coincidences.

But we will never know, since he didn't "explain" his lyrics...
 
I do think that his lyrics sometimes have "hidden messages", and that sometimes, certain things are not coincidences.

But we will never know, since he didn't "explain" his lyrics...
Yeah. He never explained his lyrics.
 
^Lol, well, it would be boring if he just spoon-fed them to us! Then we'd never have cool debate/hypotheses threads on Michael's material! Imagine that! Now there's a world I don't ever want to live in! :bugeyed
 
As for the link, WTH. Some link from that Auschwitz site (not your link, but one on the index page) took me to some scammy-looking site. :bugeyed I wonder if someone hacked it?

I don't know.. Was it a porn one? :p Not asking this randomly, but there were some adult links posted the other day by some obviously very frustrated people (who registered just to post their links), and one infiltrated in thread, can't remember which one.
 
As for the link, WTH. Some link from that Auschwitz site (not your link, but one on the index page) took me to some scammy-looking site. :bugeyed I wonder if someone hacked it?

I don't know.. Was it a porn one? :p Not asking this randomly, but there were some adult links posted the other day by some obviously very frustrated people (who registered just to post their links), and one infiltrated in thread, can't remember which one.

OT: your signature is absolutely beautiful... What's it called and what's the name of the painter?..
 
I don't know.. Was it a porn one? :p Not asking this randomly, but there were some adult links posted the other day by some obviously very frustrated people (who registered just to post their links), and one infiltrated in thread, can't remember which one.

No, it wasn't malicious, apparently. It was one of those annoying "Congratulations, Resident of _______, You've Just Won ...." and then it took me to some site about a supposed contest. I didn't even click anything on the Auschwitz site, though, but McAfee's file for that site states that there's one item cited as an 'annoying pop-up,' but it is ultimately harmless and the site itself links to other safe sites, so no worries.

I've seen several odd posts in the threads lately, and even one odd thread about tramadol, which I reported because it looked like spam and had nothing to do with Michael, or anything, and it had a bunch of links to sites which claimed they could get you tramadol without a prescription. Shady.

Oh, thanks! The painting is by John William Waterhouse. It's titled "Psyche Opening the Golden Box."
 
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Maybe it's the irony? I don't know. Susie is a bright name, if you think about it phonetically, it's sue-sie. Your voice goes up when you say it, thus why I describe it as 'bright.' There's no depression in the pronunciation, it's almost child-like. For me, at least, it evokes pictures of innocence, which is why "Little Susie" is such a powerful song--it's the destruction of innocence. It wouldn't work quite as well if it was "Little Darla", or "Little Olga." I know I'm probably not making any sense, but that's what I think.

As for "Superfly Sister", it seems to me as though Susie's the one who's abstaining from 'doing it,' since she's keeping Johnny "on his knees," "getting the boy and making him wait," etc. She, and Mother, seem to be the counter to the promiscuous Brother, Sister, and "He," who seems to be a predatory creature and possibly a danger to Susie. That supports the Susie=innocent hypothesis.

Blood on the Dance Floor is, of course, the exact opposite. In this song, Susie is the predator and not the victim like in the last two songs. Again, though, as the song's title implies--it's not a regular scenario. People don't expect to find blood when they go dancing, nor do they generally associate dance floors with murder. The dance floor is generally seen as a positive thing, a place to have a good time, so to stain it with blood and murder would be to tarnish it, in a way. Thus, the Susie in this song can be equated with the dance floor, because she's been 'corrupted' by her predatory nature. She passes herself off as a good thing, as a "friend," but is in fact a wolf in sheep's clothing who murders the men she seduces. The name Susie, then, is still one associated with innocence, even if this particular Susie is anything but--she uses the name to hide her image, a false front of innocence. Not many grown women, after all, tend to go by 'Susie.' By the time they reach adulthood, they usually stick to 'Susan', or 'Sue', to project a more adult image and distance themselves from their childhood self. By choosing to go as 'Susie', the woman in this scene is projecting a more innocent image. We can deduce she is at least 18-21 years old, because that's generally how old one has to be to go dancing at clubs.

Furthermore, Susie is actually short form for "Susan." It's not a real name, but a nickname, usually given to young girls, as I said. The meaning of the name "Susan" is Lily, a flower most often associated with purity (especially white lilies) and death. In pre-Christian times, Lilies were associated with sexuality (we could see how this could tie in to both SS and BOTDF.) However, in the Bible and Christian theology, Lilies are a symbol of purity, and we could see how that would be important for Little Susie, and even Superfly Sister, since the latter song is about sex and the loss of purity.

Hey! I really like your interpretation! I havent tought about it that way. It certanly can be the irony that the name susie sounds so innocent and pure that the thought about her being bad/dangerous is just intimidating.
IMO when a name ends with Y/IE, it sounds very innocent/pure/good and unharmful. Maybe michael was using the same method to convey the innocence of her. Look at smooth criminal, If he would have said '' Anna Are you okey ''. Anna seems more like an adult, a person in control, while Annie, sounds like a person in need, an innocent person in need not neccsarily a little girl. the same for Sue/Suzan in comparison with Susie.


Yeah, Mikage, awesome 'painting' of words you just did..

Since this name is used to describe girls/women from both the evil (in Heartbreak Hotel, he sings "We came to this place, where the vicious dwell, / And found that wicked women run this strange hotel, / There was Sefra and Sue [...]") and the innocent side, it is a prototype of two type of people: those women (groupies, for instance) who lived to seduce and cause lust in men, in him also (hence calling them wicked, vicious, dangerous, bad etc) and that innocent part (big part) of him inside that he clings onto... God forbid if Michael was submitted to .. some things he couldn't control in his childhood/preteen age (not going to delve in this deeper, other than say it's Joseph related..), hence he felt the need to create something like "Little Susie".. which, in my opinion, not only refers to abused and neglected children, but to himself, or his anima, his heart, one who felt all that, and that figuratively killed him inside {'Neglection cam kill like a knife in your soul, oh, it will..'}. And all his life he tried to cling onto his innocent part, hence him often speaking of his association with Peter Pan, with forever living in the childhood he was robbed of. Although he was a man, a strong, wonderful man, he was a strong, wonderful child also, and he mourns for hurt children, because he himself was hurt as a child. One of his conclusions in 'Walk Right Now', again a song about a prototype woman/a specific one, who didn't know what purity meant, and he himself said he loved purity: "To love as friends, I wish that we could see, / But persuasive heart, you just won't let pure friendship be." He yearned for real friendship, even moreso having been burned a whole lot by the total opposite with the heinous betrayals on behalf of many.

Yes! I believe the little susie song is not just about the susie girl who died but about michael too.. The susie in the song also is michaels childhood. Great observations and interpretations aswell!

I do think that his lyrics sometimes have "hidden messages", and that sometimes, certain things are not coincidences.

But we will never know, since he didn't "explain" his lyrics...

Yeah i believe it too! i think its great that he didnt explain his lyrics, it gives us the virtue to discuss them but still never be able to tell if are conclusions are a 100% accurate.
 
^Lol, well, it would be boring if he just spoon-fed them to us! Then we'd never have cool debate/hypotheses threads on Michael's material! Imagine that! Now there's a world I don't ever want to live in! :bugeyed

I agree, the mystery adds to the enjoyment of the songs :D
 
No, it wasn't malicious, apparently. It was one of those annoying "Congratulations, Resident of _______, You've Just Won ...." and then it took me to some site about a supposed contest. I didn't even click anything on the Auschwitz site, though, but McAfee's file for that site states that there's one item cited as an 'annoying pop-up,' but it is ultimately harmless and the site itself links to other safe sites, so no worries.

Oh, okay, lol. ^^

I've seen several odd posts in the threads lately, and even one odd thread about tramadol, which I reported because it looked like spam and had nothing to do with Michael, or anything, and it had a bunch of links to sites which claimed they could get you tramadol without a prescription. Shady.

Yes, weird infiltrators...

Oh, thanks! The painting is by John William Waterhouse. It's titled "Psyche Opening the Golden Box."[/QUOTE]

Thank you. It's simply stunning, so much humility and sadness she displays. ..
 
On the HIStory album there was also a song called "little Susie" that song talks of murder.
 
Maybe it's the irony? I don't know. Susie is a bright name, if you think about it phonetically, it's sue-sie. Your voice goes up when you say it, thus why I describe it as 'bright.' There's no depression in the pronunciation, it's almost child-like. For me, at least, it evokes pictures of innocence, which is why "Little Susie" is such a powerful song--it's the destruction of innocence. It wouldn't work quite as well if it was "Little Darla", or "Little Olga." I know I'm probably not making any sense, but that's what I think.

As for "Superfly Sister", it seems to me as though Susie's the one who's abstaining from 'doing it,' since she's keeping Johnny "on his knees," "getting the boy and making him wait," etc. She, and Mother, seem to be the counter to the promiscuous Brother, Sister, and "He," who seems to be a predatory creature and possibly a danger to Susie. That supports the Susie=innocent hypothesis.

Blood on the Dance Floor is, of course, the exact opposite. In this song, Susie is the predator and not the victim like in the last two songs. Again, though, as the song's title implies--it's not a regular scenario. People don't expect to find blood when they go dancing, nor do they generally associate dance floors with murder. The dance floor is generally seen as a positive thing, a place to have a good time, so to stain it with blood and murder would be to tarnish it, in a way. Thus, the Susie in this song can be equated with the dance floor, because she's been 'corrupted' by her predatory nature. She passes herself off as a good thing, as a "friend," but is in fact a wolf in sheep's clothing who murders the men she seduces. The name Susie, then, is still one associated with innocence, even if this particular Susie is anything but--she uses the name to hide her image, a false front of innocence. Not many grown women, after all, tend to go by 'Susie.' By the time they reach adulthood, they usually stick to 'Susan', or 'Sue', to project a more adult image and distance themselves from their childhood self. By choosing to go as 'Susie', the woman in this scene is projecting a more innocent image. We can deduce she is at least 18-21 years old, because that's generally how old one has to be to go dancing at clubs.

Furthermore, Susie is actually short form for "Susan." It's not a real name, but a nickname, usually given to young girls, as I said. The meaning of the name "Susan" is Lily, a flower most often associated with purity (especially white lilies) and death. In pre-Christian times, Lilies were associated with sexuality (we could see how this could tie in to both SS and BOTDF.) However, in the Bible and Christian theology, Lilies are a symbol of purity, and we could see how that would be important for Little Susie, and even Superfly Sister, since the latter song is about sex and the loss of purity.

Your Interpretation made me think ...
Thank you!
 
The name Susie is very close to one of me forenames so I often get the "Susie" references "directed" (pointing at me and making a big deal about the SUSIE if you know what I mean) at me by friends who are fans (not so much Little Susie, but BOTDF and Supafly Sister) which can be a bit embarrassing at times lol
 
I'd like to know this too, since my name is Susie too :D

He didn't re-use Diana or Annie the way he used Susie.

He didn't re-use Diana in more songs than Dirty Diana, but he re-used it in the "Who is it" video. It's interesting that his "Diana" is always some kind of whore (I wonder if that means anything about Miss Ross :p ), while Susie is a bit more ambiguous.
 
^Diana is the name of a Greek goddess who is associated with the moon, hunting, and childbirth. The moon, in pagan religions, has always been a symbol of the feminine (including sexuality)--as compared to the masculine sun. Therefore, we could see how Diana could be sexual in nature. The hunting aspect of it also applies, since Diana in Dirty Diana is, in essence, "hunting" Michael by following him around and coming on to him, etc. The same could be said for the prostitute Diana in the "Who is It?" video--since prostitutes go on the prowl for men in modern times. Prior to the 20th century, prostitutes could be found at brothels, palaces, and other closed places, but they wouldn't walk the streets the way they do today. Therefore, the modern prostitute is by all means a huntress--she goes out looking for Johns to have relations with for money.
As for childbirth--the only way you can have a child is if you have sex, so even that has a sexual element to it.
 
Jackson_popcorn.gif
 
Oh and he uses the name Billie Jean twice. Once in Billie Jean, of course, but he also mentions Billie Jean in "Wanna be startin somethin":

"Billie Jean Is Always Talkin'
When Nobody Else Is Talkin'
Tellin' Lies And Rubbin' Shoulders
So They Called Her Mouth A Motor"
 
^Diana is the name of a Greek goddess who is associated with the moon, hunting, and childbirth. The moon, in pagan religions, has always been a symbol of the feminine (including sexuality)--as compared to the masculine sun. Therefore, we could see how Diana could be sexual in nature. The hunting aspect of it also applies, since Diana in Dirty Diana is, in essence, "hunting" Michael by following him around and coming on to him, etc. The same could be said for the prostitute Diana in the "Who is It?" video--since prostitutes go on the prowl for men in modern times. Prior to the 20th century, prostitutes could be found at brothels, palaces, and other closed places, but they wouldn't walk the streets the way they do today. Therefore, the modern prostitute is by all means a huntress--she goes out looking for Johns to have relations with for money.
As for childbirth--the only way you can have a child is if you have sex, so even that has a sexual element to it.


Man, your interpretations are so carefully-worded and brilliant. And I'm one with a soft-spot for Greek/Roman mythology, yet didn't think of "Diana" as related to it. Brilliant, thank you.
 
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