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Billie Jean Inspiration-Rip-Off???

Its NOT The same beat :doh:

Its closer to the rythm of the base but
there are only so many counts beats and rythms
It's how you put them all together in a composistion
that makes a MATERPIECE
 
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Lots of songs have the same beat. There's only so many drum patterns. Caribbean Queen by Billy Ocean and Night Rider from Midnight Star has the same pattern which is a very simple beat. But "I Can't Go For That" is done with a drum machine, and the other songs are live drums.
 
of course somebody is going to say that because of how great and successful a songwriter MJ is, with that song.

as far as Swedien goes..i heard a discussion on Samm Brown's for the record and a respected engineer said that an engineer's work is only as good as the song he or she is engineering. i can only imagine what Swedien heard when Michael first opened his mouth and introduced the song to Sweidien(probably having sp troubles but too lazy at the mo)

anyway, that hall and oates song sounds nothing like billie jean.

sometimes an artist can take the same notes and come up with something entirely different from what somebody else did with the same notes. as a poster above mentioned..it's not the notes..it's what you do with the notes.
 
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vncwilliam said:
as far as Swedien goes..i heard a discussion on Samm Brown's for the record and a respected engineer said that an engineer's work is only as good as the song he or she is engineering.
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if you're trying to downplay Swedien's importance in creating Billie Jean, then you're failing.

there's no comparison or competition between engineer/songwriter/etc. etc. - each role has its individualistic input and merit.

as for Swedien's thoughts on the song:
“Billie Jean is such a superb song!"
​
 
arXter said:
if you're trying to downplay Swedien's importance in creating Billie Jean, then you're failing.

there's no comparison or competition between engineer/songwriter/etc. etc. - each role has its individualistic input and merit.

as for Swedien's thoughts on the song:
“Billie Jean is such a superb song!"
​
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uhm...i am not downplaying anything.

i am just stating where it starts. david foster and quincy jones agreed. they said three times..'the song, the song, the song.'.

i know the importance of an engineer..and i also know that people will do anything to spend less money on one by trying to be one themselves. and they fail miserably. i know as much as anyone that people who specialize in something should be regarded as much as people who call them selves jack of all trades...maybe moreso because of how people..for instance say a baseball player who only hits for a living but doesn't play the field is considered a lesser person than one who does both..but David Ortiz is probably one of the greatest DH's of all time(for those who know baseball)

so i am well aware of quality talent and how much it should be regarded as opposed to the quantity of talents one has. which is why i hate MJ and Prince comparisons..

i am glad that Bruce said what he said...but..it was just as easy for me to get the impression that you were leaving Michael out, as it was for you to get the impression that i was leaving Bruce out. only with your second post did you clear that up.
 
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^ actually, my second post was a response to your "as for Swedien" response. why the **** would i leave Mike out LOL
 
arXter said:
^ actually, my second post was a response to your "as for Swedien" response. why the **** would i leave Mike out LOL
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where did i downplay Bruce? i did not. so i don't know what you were responding to. i simply mentioned the importance of the song. that is ALL i said.
 
Umm that song took me straight to my childhood, but not because of Billie Jean.. It reminded of THIS::


Starts at: 4:36
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Eh03OwoGL_w


anyone hear the simularities??


MAN I LOVED NINJA TURTLES WHEN I WAS YOUNGER... :)
 
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DuranDuran said:
Lots of songs have the same beat. There's only so many drum patterns. Caribbean Queen by Billy Ocean and Night Rider from Midnight Star has the same pattern which is a very simple beat. But "I Can't Go For That" is done with a drum machine, and the other songs are live drums.
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Exactly. But I heard so many songs (MJ included) using the same drum pattern with, as you said, with live drums. The bass lines were also emulated but not ripped off, I don't think. The thing that makes something like "Billie Jean" stand out is the fact that it incorporated strings into the thing (and MJ's background vocals, itself inspired by Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder).

Other than that, "Billie Jean" would've been your typical kick-ass funk joint like this song is.
 
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MJ did say he was inspired by Hall and Oats I can't go for that intro and that Opening Beat and Groove was a Huge staple in my Hood. no Problem is taking a piece here and there. the Groove for Billie Jean sounds like Steely Dans' "Do it again" and Quincy Jones's style of Producing was done to take bits and pieces off of past hit songs.


thriller from the bass Groove took it's groove from Rick james's give it to me baby.

Beat it was inspired by the Knacks My Sharona" which Q told MJ he needed that type of cut.
 
So true, Maxxx. I don't know why it would be a rip-off if it was really an inspiration. And besides some of the greatest songs in the world are created THROUGH inspiration. It amuses me that people have a fit about it or at least hearing non-fans say MJ "stole" it, lol, in which in that case it ain't true.
 
"Like A Virgin" by Madonna and "Addicted To Love" by Robert Palmer also has basically the same beat. "Heavy Love Affair" by Marvin Gaye has a similar pattern, but it has cymbols and it's not mixed the same.
 
The Billie Jean drumbeat is THE most basic Standard Rock Beat, and usually the very first beat any drummer learns to play. So you'll find it EVERYWHERE.

What's amazing is this simple, common drum pattern drove Billie Jean ALL OVER THE UNIVERSE! It's infectious and irresistable and even white peeps can follow the rhythm and dance to it (no offence to white peeps - I'm a white peep myself!).

And Billie Jean was just voted the all-time number 1 dance song too! Hurrah!
 
mistermaxxx said:
MJ did say he was inspired by Hall and Oats I can't go for that intro and that Opening Beat and Groove was a Huge staple in my Hood. no Problem is taking a piece here and there. the Groove for Billie Jean sounds like Steely Dans' "Do it again" and Quincy Jones's style of Producing was done to take bits and pieces off of past hit songs.


thriller from the bass Groove took it's groove from Rick james's give it to me baby.

Beat it was inspired by the Knacks My Sharona" which Q told MJ he needed that type of cut.
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I don't hear that. Do It Again has a latin type of sound.
 
I don't think there's much similarity in the case of these two songs, but I have noticed similarities between other MJ songs and other artists'.

Examples: "Off the Wall" vs. "Boogie Nights" bassline
"Material Girl" vs. "Can You Feel It" bassline
 
It's even more stupid that Hall claimed MJ admitted to copying from it! The bass pattern is nothing like Billie Jean!
 
Frankyboy5 said:
It's even more stupid that Hall claimed MJ admitted to copying from it! The bass pattern is nothing like Billie Jean!
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It doesn't have to sound exactly like it, just similar. If Mike made an exact copy, then it would have been copyright infringement. Quincy Jones says "Beat It" was inspired by The Knack's "My Sharona", so what's so different about this?
 
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