elmari
Proud Member
I randomly found this video tonight. Berry was a guest on Tavis Smiley's late night PBS show on 6/29/2009 and spent time talking about his memories of Michael and Motown. I've always liked Berry Gordy for some reason. He seems to have a very friendly and talkative demeanor. I know he loved Michael very much and vice versa. I wish that Berry could have been more a part of Michael's life as an adult. There were times where I thought Berry looked teary-eyed and very sad.
The full interview is really good and I recommend watching the whole thing.
http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/archive/200906/20090629_gordy.html
Berry talking about Michael- Teaser (4 min)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=tavi08s2b30qa23
Berry's full interview about Michael (24 min)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=tavi08s2b36qa25
******************************************************************
Here's a transcript of the interview if you don't want to watch it:
Tavis: Some classic archival video from the Jackson 5 that makes you move every time you hear it.
As we kicked off our sixth season here on PBS back in January of this year I was honored to be joined on this program by a true American icon, Berry Gordy. During this year in which we celebrate the 50th anniversary of Motown it is with a heavy heart that we welcome him back to this program tonight following the death of a man who would become Motown's brightest star. Mr. Chairman, always an honor to see you.
Berry Gordy: Hi.
Tavis: You doing all right, man?
Gordy: I'm doing as well as can be expected.
Tavis: I know these things are - I know these days are tough.
Gordy: Yeah. Yet another one of the Motown family is gone and it's just - it's just breathtaking, to know that these people that you've, since he was nine or 10, to grow and do all the things that he has done in his lifetime and become America's, or the greatest artist in the world, it's just mind-boggling. And so many memories, it's hard to think.
I look at pictures of him and me and I think about earlier songs. That first song they did, "I Want You Back," was something that I walked around humming in my head because I wanted him to be young, even though he was dancing like James Brown and he was doing all the great steps, I just felt that anything that he sung like a James Brown would be too old for this young, energetic, powerful, bright young man.
So I walked around humming, "Oh, baby, dah, dah, dee, dah, dee," something that would be bright for him at his age, and me and three other guys produced and wrote it and every time I see it it just throws me into another period, another time.
So I open my interview with going back with great memories.
Tavis: I'm glad you're here and I appreciate that. And those memories spark at least two questions for me right now, in no particular order. Number one, you wanted to put Michael in the group out there with the right song, to your brilliant story now, and yet what blew people away was when he started singing stuff that belied the fact that he was so young.
You got this little guy singing songs and putting it out there in such a way but there's no way a kid his age could understand the emotions he was singing about. But he did it in such a convincing and compelling manner, and that's what really blew people away about it.
Gordy: Except that we didn't put that out to the public. The public didn't know that. Insiders knew about it because it was on an album. It was a Smokey song called "Who's Loving You." And he did that early, and I said that would not be one of his first three or four songs because it was just - it was like 50 years of knowing about love. (Laughter)
This man was saying - and I didn't say it in front of Smokey, but man, he was kicking Smokey's ass on that song. (Laughter) He was putting so much passion in that, man, and I looked at his - where'd he get that emotion from, what was that? And, well, you've heard the song.
Tavis: But what did you - we've all discussed this a thousand times. You're the chairman, though. What did you make of that? What did you make of the fact that here was this kid who was taking Smokey's lyrics and singing, as you said, like he'd been loving for 50 years? What did you make of that?
Gordy: Just "He's been here before." We'd just walk around, "He's been here before." (Laughter) (Unintelligible)
Tavis: He's lived it - yeah.
Gordy: Yeah, he's been here before, because it's, like, impossible. And he was this kid who was so excited about everything he was doing. And I hear people talk all the time about he didn't have a childhood and he didn't have this and he was, like, miserable, and he was - we don't know anything about that, because Michael was happy, he was young, he was vibrant, he was a kid, he was always playing jokes and pranks and doing things.
And we would have baseball games every week - the Jacksons versus the Gordys, because we had - and Motown was about love and competition. Everybody competed. Everybody wanted to be - Michael, the greatest joy, I know when he came to me and he loved my house so much in Bel Aire and when he got a house twice as big as mine up in Neverland, he was so excited. (Laughter)
Because, "Berry, you've got to see it." We were love and competition. We just competed on everything. And the sad thing for me was that they all got better than me. Smokey got better, Michael got better, Stevie got better. All of them, they were just so much better in their singing, and I thought I was a great songwriter, but each year when one of them would come along, my rating would drop here, here. (Laughter)
And eventually, when Lionel and all the rest of them came I just went into freefall. (Laughter) I just stopped calling myself a writer. I said, I'm not -
Tavis:Yeah, "I'm just the chairman."
Gordy: I'm just the chairman. You guys - and that was so thrilling, and I'm still thrilled. And the Motown people, they're just - and to have a child who was nine or 10 years old to pursue his dream and become the greatest entertainer in the world takes work.
People seem to think that oh, he just happened to have been - had a bad childhood but he all of a sudden became the - this doesn't happen overnight.
Tavis: It's a lot of discipline.
Gordy: He dreamed of working. He would practice when other people were playing and when we were doing a rehearsal or something and the rehearsal would finish and the other guys might have the guitars and they'd be playing back and forth - never. He was always staring, what is - every time I know, if I was working with them, which I did in many cases, I could always look at Michael and he was staring.
He was focusing. No playing, nothing. He did that by choice. He's a genius. He was a genius at nine, at 10. Singing that song showed us that he could do.
So I - but it's like anything else. Michael, being the biggest artist in the world, folklore just comes. People say stuff and it just - okay, he was the most miserable kid we've ever seen. Kids would give their right arm to be able to pursue their dream at nine, and to -
Tavis: As would their parents, to cash in on their pursuing their dreams in America.
The first album, of course, "Diana Ross Presents the Jackson 5," take me inside the company and help me understand - on the surface I get it; Diana Ross is a star, they're just being introduced. Help me understand from your perspective why you wanted to roll Michael and his brothers out that way.
Gordy: Because that was the best way to do it, and Diana was gracious enough to do - to present them for me. She was the biggest star. I said, "We've got this young kid, they're going to be great." We got three number one records in the can, we cut them one after another, and we knew they would go.
There was a manager of them that worked for me, but he was handling them. His name was Shelly Berger and he said, "This group is so great the first date they're going to have, we're going to charge $25,000 a night for them." And so I said, "Well, how are you going to do that?"
He said, "How many records you got, number one, with them?" I said, "I got three. I got at least three." I didn't know we were going to have four because we changed the - we came with "I'll Be There" on the fourth one.
And so he then would not book them for, like, a long time - three years, or whatever. Maybe not three years, but whatever time it took. The promoters would call. Every time there was a hit record they would call in to promote them - I mean to book them. So first he said, $10,000. "Are you crazy? A new group, never been out before?" He said, "No, they're performers." So we'd wait and get another hit out and then he'd say, "Okay, $15,000."
And then, "Well, offer, okay." And so he just said no. And I was getting worried because that's a lot of money. I'd say, "Shelly, this - are you sure? Fifteen thousand a night for a group who has never made more than $200 a night? Are you kidding?"
He said, "No. I trusted you, you said you got the records, and so we're going to wait." And true enough, the very first date, the promoter said, "We'll pay them $15,000 a night." They did, and from that day on the price kept going up and up and up and it was - and I give Shelly Berger the credit for that.
Tavis: There's a funny story that you told me before about the apartment that you had when you moved them out to L.A. You put them in an apartment and they end up getting evicted. You had to (laughter) - tell the story about why the Jacksons got kicked out of their apartment.
Gordy: Well, that was just they were making too much noise. They were having fun, they were playing and they were doing their instruments, and the people said, "No, we don't want this."
Tavis: Too much noise.
Gordy: It's too much noise.
Tavis: So Michael got kicked out of his apartment.
Gordy: Yeah, oh, yeah. Well, they all got kicked out.
Tavis: Yeah, yeah.
Gordy: And they came with me to live, but it was great because we had so much fun and we could work night and day. And that's all they wanted to do was work because it was so much fun doing those records.
The first three records, "I Want You Back" I just heard, and then "ABC." In fact, "ABC," I had him in the studio, and I was really teaching him the song, and we didn't know the song. He didn't know the song and I didn't know the song because it hadn't been quite written. All I know was "Dah, dah, dah, ABC, 1-2-3, you and me." (Laughter)
And so they had so much fun rehearsing, and they would just - in fact, since they lived with me they were my demo singers. I said, "Okay, you guys are going to be demo singers." They said, "What is a demo singer?" I said, "That's the people who sing it before the stars get it. After you write the song, you guys will do it."
And they loved that, and so that was the story. But they were kicked out, they came there, they stayed in my house, and we had a ball.
Tavis: But if there's one piece of footage that I've seen over and over and over again, everybody, of course, is playing the moonwalk footage at the 25th anniversary. When you see that footage now, what goes through your mind? Since his passing, I've seen that more than anything. It was a seminal moment, of course, in his career.
Gordy: Yes, it was. Well, there was a story behind that. That was the Motown 25th, and they were honoring me. I was really not that happy with the show honoring me, because many of the artists had left the company. So I was not happy with any of the artists, and they all wanted to come back to pay tribute.
And I said, "Pay tribute? They've gone." They went to other companies for more money and this, that, and so forth, and I've still got to pay the overhead and this and that. So now they want to come back and tribute me? So I was not really thrilled.
Tavis: About doing the show, yeah.
Gordy: Well, I was not then. But they all agreed to come back and they came back with so much love. And so then I realized I'd learned so much in this time where I was going through this that they had nothing - they were offered money they couldn't refuse because everybody was shooting for artists, and as I looked back at it I said, well, I probably would have felt the same way they felt.
But they still loved me. They didn't think it was anything - when an artist leaves a major company, they have no idea how the grosses will drop. They're not in business. But I came anyway and I was sitting in the audience, and I was - oh, no, before that everybody decided to come except for Marvin Gaye and Michael. Marvin Gaye came by my house because he wanted me to ask him personally, because I hadn't asked him personally.
So he came to my house and said, "Well, do you personally?" I said, "Yes, Marvin, I want you personally." So he came. And they said, Michael will not come because he's doing too much TV. His company, his managers, nobody wants him to do this because he's doing too much TV.
So I called Michael and I said, "Michael, this is not TV. This is Motown 25, and it's a tribute to me. So what do you want to do? " And he said, "Oh, I didn't know that. I'll be there. I'll be there. I'll be there with my brothers," because they had not been together for all this time.
And we stayed in a really good relationship all the time and I'm still very close to the brothers. And he came there and that's when he did the moonwalk. Because I told him, I said, "This is going to be a big show," because when Motown people get together there's magic, because Motown people cannot not love each other.
We went through a period of time where it was tough and hard and there was racism, there was riots, there was this, there was that, and they went down to the South and their bus was shot at, and I called them and said, "You all get back here. I sent you kids out there and I'm - I can't."
And they refused to because they said the people love us down here. We're bringing joy and love to these people, and so they were (unintelligible). Because they were taken for Freedom Riders and all that. And they said, we don't care, we're going to stay out.
So they did and it was just that I've always felt that - I felt responsible for everything that they did. But it was really through love and competition. So those artists today cannot not love each other for what we went through. So when he came back to that Motown 25, he really, really put on a show - probably the greatest show ever. He was inspired.
And when he did the moonwalk, he went into orbit and he never came down. It was like something that shocked me. It was the most amazing thing. But not only that, the whole show. When he came and did his first routine with the Jackson 5, when you look at the precision that they had, they were just the most disciplined group.
And a lot of times I hear a lot of talk about the father or the mother, but I always give them great credit. Because when they came to me, they were disciplined - very disciplined - and they were always on time and so when I hear the various stories - and first of all, I don't believe anything, usually, when I hear it, because it's just so many sound bites and this and that, and people take things and just go out and just say them, and they pick it up and they print it.
But I never saw any abuse, physically or mentally, with Michael. It was just very disciplined, and I was happy that they were always on time, they were always - I had no trouble with them.
Tavis: As these artists have passed away through the years, how do you personally process that? When you lose a Marvin, when you lose a Michael, when you lose - how do you process that?
Gordy: I process with great memories, because I believe in doing things for people when they're here. Sure, dying is a habit. People die all the time and the funerals are packed and people are there, but what did you do for them while they were here? How did you help them? Did you guide them?
My thing at Motown was about an atmosphere, it was about guiding them. I wanted them to be happy before, during, and after success, and we had a thing at Motown where we taught the cycle of success. When you get a hit record, that's just the beginning of the cycle. When you get popular, fame, fortune, money, all those things are just part of that cycle of success.
Now when a genius comes along like - well, many of them were geniuses; Stevie was a genius, Smokey was a genius, many. Every artist was very, very special. Michael was just one of the youngest and as I look at all of them, they were smart because I don't know, they just were taught to do the things, as far as integrity is concerned, regarding their being.
I wanted the magic to unleash out of them, whatever magic, so they were free. They were free within restrictions, that's what we used to say. Okay, you're free - totally free, do anything you want to do within restrictions. (Laughter)
Tavis: That's the Berry Gordy way.
The full interview is really good and I recommend watching the whole thing.
http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/archive/200906/20090629_gordy.html
Berry talking about Michael- Teaser (4 min)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=tavi08s2b30qa23
Berry's full interview about Michael (24 min)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=tavi08s2b36qa25
******************************************************************
Here's a transcript of the interview if you don't want to watch it:
Tavis: Some classic archival video from the Jackson 5 that makes you move every time you hear it.
As we kicked off our sixth season here on PBS back in January of this year I was honored to be joined on this program by a true American icon, Berry Gordy. During this year in which we celebrate the 50th anniversary of Motown it is with a heavy heart that we welcome him back to this program tonight following the death of a man who would become Motown's brightest star. Mr. Chairman, always an honor to see you.
Berry Gordy: Hi.
Tavis: You doing all right, man?
Gordy: I'm doing as well as can be expected.
Tavis: I know these things are - I know these days are tough.
Gordy: Yeah. Yet another one of the Motown family is gone and it's just - it's just breathtaking, to know that these people that you've, since he was nine or 10, to grow and do all the things that he has done in his lifetime and become America's, or the greatest artist in the world, it's just mind-boggling. And so many memories, it's hard to think.
I look at pictures of him and me and I think about earlier songs. That first song they did, "I Want You Back," was something that I walked around humming in my head because I wanted him to be young, even though he was dancing like James Brown and he was doing all the great steps, I just felt that anything that he sung like a James Brown would be too old for this young, energetic, powerful, bright young man.
So I walked around humming, "Oh, baby, dah, dah, dee, dah, dee," something that would be bright for him at his age, and me and three other guys produced and wrote it and every time I see it it just throws me into another period, another time.
So I open my interview with going back with great memories.
Tavis: I'm glad you're here and I appreciate that. And those memories spark at least two questions for me right now, in no particular order. Number one, you wanted to put Michael in the group out there with the right song, to your brilliant story now, and yet what blew people away was when he started singing stuff that belied the fact that he was so young.
You got this little guy singing songs and putting it out there in such a way but there's no way a kid his age could understand the emotions he was singing about. But he did it in such a convincing and compelling manner, and that's what really blew people away about it.
Gordy: Except that we didn't put that out to the public. The public didn't know that. Insiders knew about it because it was on an album. It was a Smokey song called "Who's Loving You." And he did that early, and I said that would not be one of his first three or four songs because it was just - it was like 50 years of knowing about love. (Laughter)
This man was saying - and I didn't say it in front of Smokey, but man, he was kicking Smokey's ass on that song. (Laughter) He was putting so much passion in that, man, and I looked at his - where'd he get that emotion from, what was that? And, well, you've heard the song.
Tavis: But what did you - we've all discussed this a thousand times. You're the chairman, though. What did you make of that? What did you make of the fact that here was this kid who was taking Smokey's lyrics and singing, as you said, like he'd been loving for 50 years? What did you make of that?
Gordy: Just "He's been here before." We'd just walk around, "He's been here before." (Laughter) (Unintelligible)
Tavis: He's lived it - yeah.
Gordy: Yeah, he's been here before, because it's, like, impossible. And he was this kid who was so excited about everything he was doing. And I hear people talk all the time about he didn't have a childhood and he didn't have this and he was, like, miserable, and he was - we don't know anything about that, because Michael was happy, he was young, he was vibrant, he was a kid, he was always playing jokes and pranks and doing things.
And we would have baseball games every week - the Jacksons versus the Gordys, because we had - and Motown was about love and competition. Everybody competed. Everybody wanted to be - Michael, the greatest joy, I know when he came to me and he loved my house so much in Bel Aire and when he got a house twice as big as mine up in Neverland, he was so excited. (Laughter)
Because, "Berry, you've got to see it." We were love and competition. We just competed on everything. And the sad thing for me was that they all got better than me. Smokey got better, Michael got better, Stevie got better. All of them, they were just so much better in their singing, and I thought I was a great songwriter, but each year when one of them would come along, my rating would drop here, here. (Laughter)
And eventually, when Lionel and all the rest of them came I just went into freefall. (Laughter) I just stopped calling myself a writer. I said, I'm not -
Tavis:Yeah, "I'm just the chairman."
Gordy: I'm just the chairman. You guys - and that was so thrilling, and I'm still thrilled. And the Motown people, they're just - and to have a child who was nine or 10 years old to pursue his dream and become the greatest entertainer in the world takes work.
People seem to think that oh, he just happened to have been - had a bad childhood but he all of a sudden became the - this doesn't happen overnight.
Tavis: It's a lot of discipline.
Gordy: He dreamed of working. He would practice when other people were playing and when we were doing a rehearsal or something and the rehearsal would finish and the other guys might have the guitars and they'd be playing back and forth - never. He was always staring, what is - every time I know, if I was working with them, which I did in many cases, I could always look at Michael and he was staring.
He was focusing. No playing, nothing. He did that by choice. He's a genius. He was a genius at nine, at 10. Singing that song showed us that he could do.
So I - but it's like anything else. Michael, being the biggest artist in the world, folklore just comes. People say stuff and it just - okay, he was the most miserable kid we've ever seen. Kids would give their right arm to be able to pursue their dream at nine, and to -
Tavis: As would their parents, to cash in on their pursuing their dreams in America.
The first album, of course, "Diana Ross Presents the Jackson 5," take me inside the company and help me understand - on the surface I get it; Diana Ross is a star, they're just being introduced. Help me understand from your perspective why you wanted to roll Michael and his brothers out that way.
Gordy: Because that was the best way to do it, and Diana was gracious enough to do - to present them for me. She was the biggest star. I said, "We've got this young kid, they're going to be great." We got three number one records in the can, we cut them one after another, and we knew they would go.
There was a manager of them that worked for me, but he was handling them. His name was Shelly Berger and he said, "This group is so great the first date they're going to have, we're going to charge $25,000 a night for them." And so I said, "Well, how are you going to do that?"
He said, "How many records you got, number one, with them?" I said, "I got three. I got at least three." I didn't know we were going to have four because we changed the - we came with "I'll Be There" on the fourth one.
And so he then would not book them for, like, a long time - three years, or whatever. Maybe not three years, but whatever time it took. The promoters would call. Every time there was a hit record they would call in to promote them - I mean to book them. So first he said, $10,000. "Are you crazy? A new group, never been out before?" He said, "No, they're performers." So we'd wait and get another hit out and then he'd say, "Okay, $15,000."
And then, "Well, offer, okay." And so he just said no. And I was getting worried because that's a lot of money. I'd say, "Shelly, this - are you sure? Fifteen thousand a night for a group who has never made more than $200 a night? Are you kidding?"
He said, "No. I trusted you, you said you got the records, and so we're going to wait." And true enough, the very first date, the promoter said, "We'll pay them $15,000 a night." They did, and from that day on the price kept going up and up and up and it was - and I give Shelly Berger the credit for that.
Tavis: There's a funny story that you told me before about the apartment that you had when you moved them out to L.A. You put them in an apartment and they end up getting evicted. You had to (laughter) - tell the story about why the Jacksons got kicked out of their apartment.
Gordy: Well, that was just they were making too much noise. They were having fun, they were playing and they were doing their instruments, and the people said, "No, we don't want this."
Tavis: Too much noise.
Gordy: It's too much noise.
Tavis: So Michael got kicked out of his apartment.
Gordy: Yeah, oh, yeah. Well, they all got kicked out.
Tavis: Yeah, yeah.
Gordy: And they came with me to live, but it was great because we had so much fun and we could work night and day. And that's all they wanted to do was work because it was so much fun doing those records.
The first three records, "I Want You Back" I just heard, and then "ABC." In fact, "ABC," I had him in the studio, and I was really teaching him the song, and we didn't know the song. He didn't know the song and I didn't know the song because it hadn't been quite written. All I know was "Dah, dah, dah, ABC, 1-2-3, you and me." (Laughter)
And so they had so much fun rehearsing, and they would just - in fact, since they lived with me they were my demo singers. I said, "Okay, you guys are going to be demo singers." They said, "What is a demo singer?" I said, "That's the people who sing it before the stars get it. After you write the song, you guys will do it."
And they loved that, and so that was the story. But they were kicked out, they came there, they stayed in my house, and we had a ball.
Tavis: But if there's one piece of footage that I've seen over and over and over again, everybody, of course, is playing the moonwalk footage at the 25th anniversary. When you see that footage now, what goes through your mind? Since his passing, I've seen that more than anything. It was a seminal moment, of course, in his career.
Gordy: Yes, it was. Well, there was a story behind that. That was the Motown 25th, and they were honoring me. I was really not that happy with the show honoring me, because many of the artists had left the company. So I was not happy with any of the artists, and they all wanted to come back to pay tribute.
And I said, "Pay tribute? They've gone." They went to other companies for more money and this, that, and so forth, and I've still got to pay the overhead and this and that. So now they want to come back and tribute me? So I was not really thrilled.
Tavis: About doing the show, yeah.
Gordy: Well, I was not then. But they all agreed to come back and they came back with so much love. And so then I realized I'd learned so much in this time where I was going through this that they had nothing - they were offered money they couldn't refuse because everybody was shooting for artists, and as I looked back at it I said, well, I probably would have felt the same way they felt.
But they still loved me. They didn't think it was anything - when an artist leaves a major company, they have no idea how the grosses will drop. They're not in business. But I came anyway and I was sitting in the audience, and I was - oh, no, before that everybody decided to come except for Marvin Gaye and Michael. Marvin Gaye came by my house because he wanted me to ask him personally, because I hadn't asked him personally.
So he came to my house and said, "Well, do you personally?" I said, "Yes, Marvin, I want you personally." So he came. And they said, Michael will not come because he's doing too much TV. His company, his managers, nobody wants him to do this because he's doing too much TV.
So I called Michael and I said, "Michael, this is not TV. This is Motown 25, and it's a tribute to me. So what do you want to do? " And he said, "Oh, I didn't know that. I'll be there. I'll be there. I'll be there with my brothers," because they had not been together for all this time.
And we stayed in a really good relationship all the time and I'm still very close to the brothers. And he came there and that's when he did the moonwalk. Because I told him, I said, "This is going to be a big show," because when Motown people get together there's magic, because Motown people cannot not love each other.
We went through a period of time where it was tough and hard and there was racism, there was riots, there was this, there was that, and they went down to the South and their bus was shot at, and I called them and said, "You all get back here. I sent you kids out there and I'm - I can't."
And they refused to because they said the people love us down here. We're bringing joy and love to these people, and so they were (unintelligible). Because they were taken for Freedom Riders and all that. And they said, we don't care, we're going to stay out.
So they did and it was just that I've always felt that - I felt responsible for everything that they did. But it was really through love and competition. So those artists today cannot not love each other for what we went through. So when he came back to that Motown 25, he really, really put on a show - probably the greatest show ever. He was inspired.
And when he did the moonwalk, he went into orbit and he never came down. It was like something that shocked me. It was the most amazing thing. But not only that, the whole show. When he came and did his first routine with the Jackson 5, when you look at the precision that they had, they were just the most disciplined group.
And a lot of times I hear a lot of talk about the father or the mother, but I always give them great credit. Because when they came to me, they were disciplined - very disciplined - and they were always on time and so when I hear the various stories - and first of all, I don't believe anything, usually, when I hear it, because it's just so many sound bites and this and that, and people take things and just go out and just say them, and they pick it up and they print it.
But I never saw any abuse, physically or mentally, with Michael. It was just very disciplined, and I was happy that they were always on time, they were always - I had no trouble with them.
Tavis: As these artists have passed away through the years, how do you personally process that? When you lose a Marvin, when you lose a Michael, when you lose - how do you process that?
Gordy: I process with great memories, because I believe in doing things for people when they're here. Sure, dying is a habit. People die all the time and the funerals are packed and people are there, but what did you do for them while they were here? How did you help them? Did you guide them?
My thing at Motown was about an atmosphere, it was about guiding them. I wanted them to be happy before, during, and after success, and we had a thing at Motown where we taught the cycle of success. When you get a hit record, that's just the beginning of the cycle. When you get popular, fame, fortune, money, all those things are just part of that cycle of success.
Now when a genius comes along like - well, many of them were geniuses; Stevie was a genius, Smokey was a genius, many. Every artist was very, very special. Michael was just one of the youngest and as I look at all of them, they were smart because I don't know, they just were taught to do the things, as far as integrity is concerned, regarding their being.
I wanted the magic to unleash out of them, whatever magic, so they were free. They were free within restrictions, that's what we used to say. Okay, you're free - totally free, do anything you want to do within restrictions. (Laughter)
Tavis: That's the Berry Gordy way.
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