Amy Winehouse and the Pitfalls of Posthumous Albums - MJ related

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bluesky

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It didn't even take a week for Lioness: Hidden Treasures, the posthumous album from troubled British singer Amy Winehouse that was released on December 2, to top the UK charts.
Fans couldn't wait to snatch up the presumably last album from the multi-Grammy winner whose previous release was Back to Black, all the way back in 2006.
Fan and critic reviews have been mixed but that's not uncommon for posthumous albums.

Michael
, the King of Pop's posthumous album released in December 2010, was extremely controversial, with fans questioning if the vocals even belonged to MJ. There was also talk that Michael Jackson would have never consented to the album's release because it was a poor reflection of his talent. Nevertheless, Michael topped the R&B/Hip-Hop Billboard charts and reached number three on the Billboard charts overall. It also went platinum in the United States and over a dozen other countries.

theGrio: 'Michael' is no thriller, but it isn't bad

Tupac, of course, has not had that problem. His posthumous releases have been plentiful and generally well-received. Of the eight albums released after his tragic death in 1996, five have topped the Billboard R&B/Hip-Hop chart, with only one failing to go platinum. Many critics have also embraced the work as easily as fans.
This is not typical though.

The criticism that the posthumous releases from Amy Winehouse and Michael Jackson have received is normal. Generally, these albums are thrown together. The song selections are sequenced after the artist's death. And, on top of that, the songs were unfinished at the artist's death in both of these cases.

But, even if an artist would have sanctioned a posthumous release, chances are it would be almost impossible for it to live up to the hype, especially since the artist is not around to promote it. People, whether they admit or not, are very swayed by a personality. That's why promoting music is so important. And, many times, an artist can promote a subpar song to hit status. So, without the artist around to promote or defend the work, the fan and critic can't help but look at the music for what it is.

Worse yet, the work now becomes more than that moment. Because the artist is no longer here, it has to not just stand but stand up against the overall body of work. In death, there are no throw-away tracks or songs that were just good enough.

When a colossal talent such as Michael Jackson will not make music anymore, the expectations become gargantuan and no release can live up to that.


With Michael, it wasn't just if it was good but, rather, did it match Thriller or Off the Wall? People so want the last work of their beloved artists to be great. They want it to somehow put an exclamation mark on their longtime love affair with their music.


Tupac's posthumous releases have not generally disappointed because he was extremely prolific. Even during the constant drama that was his life, he made music like most people punch a clock. There were no long breaks without creating something. His posthumous releases were laid down by him and, as such, were not helped along much after his death so those songs were very much a part of his grand musical vision. This is what made Sam Cooke's "A Change is Gonna Come" a classic though he was not alive to see its release.
Also, Tupac was very well aware of his mortality. Whether we like to admit it or not, many of us don't truly believe we will die and we certainly don't prepare for it. Tupac was hyper aware of this and had an urgency in his music that spoke to it often. He frequently rhymed about life and death, which is a perennially timeless topic. Trust and loyalty was also of great interest to him as well as living life to the fullest. Plus his mother, Afeni Shakur, who is very protective of his work, has guided his legacy well. But, then again, that's easy to do when you have so much to work with.

With Michael Jackson, there have been so many other distractions like the custody of his children, control of his estate and the Conrad Murray trial that his music has gotten lost in the shuffle. As impossible as it is to believe, one could argue that his music has been greatly overshadowed by all the other drama in his life.

It's not hard for the first posthumous release from an artist to hit big. We saw that with NotoriousB.I.G. as well. Still, most artists score best after death with songs created during their lifetime. Ray Charles's music, for example, has done very well since his death in 2004 and so has Michael Jackson's. So, when it comes to evaluating an artist's legacy, it is much better to look at his or her best instead of remnants of what was or could have been.

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/sou...-the-pitfalls-of-posthumous-albums.php?page=1
 
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Re: Amy Winehouse and the Pitfalls of Posthumous Albums

I love Amy, but whoever wrote the article needs to stfu up, Michael Jackson's music is eternal, it will never be overshadowed by anything, Michael Jackson IS music
 
It´s not an album but This is it movie is(or was)the best selling concertmovie although it was only rehearsals.
Michael is special.
 
We've had Lioness playing where I work (just as we did with Michael) its pretty good the only song I dont like the original version of Valerie & Michael isnt terrible The Way You Love Me is the only song I tend to skip.
 
Earlier today I was reading this one review of the Amy Winehouse posthumous album and thinking, "Why couldn't Michael (the album) be free of the controversy? Why, why??......This ain't fair..."
Seriously, is this what he deserves for all the contributions he's made for the American music, the music industry, the entertainment industry and music in general?
I can never ever get over it.
The criticism that the posthumous releases from Amy Winehouse and Michael Jackson have received is normal. Generally, these albums are thrown together. The song selections are sequenced after the artist's death. And, on top of that,
the songs were unfinished at the artist's death in both of these cases.


Of course, the songs got thrown together in a hurry, oh yes.
But could there be a worse scenario than the authenticity controvercy?:angry:
I mean, I could care less about the song selections when the album got treated like sh*t with the issue.
THE WORST TREATMENT EVER AN ARTIST REGARDING THEIR ALBUM, DEAD OR ALIVE, COULD GET, PERIOD :mat:
But, even if an artist would have sanctioned a posthumous release, chances are it would be almost impossible for it to live up to the hype, especially since the artist is not around to promote it. People, whether they admit or not, are very swayed by a personality. That's why promoting music is so important. And, many times, an artist can promote a subpar song to hit status. So, without the artist around to promote or defend the work, the fan and critic can't help but look at the music for what it is.
I seriously disagree. As much as I wish I could see him alive and promote his work, promotion effort does not affect the quality of music. Sometimes, hard-core fans can be the sharpest critics and they really know if the music is tight without being "swayed" by the personality.

So, when it comes to evaluating an artist's legacy, it is much better to look at his or her best instead of remnants of what was or could have been.
Agreed.


Nice read. Thanks to the T/S!


 
Earlier today I was reading this one review of the Amy Winehouse posthumous album and thinking, "Why couldn't Michael (the album) be free of the controversy? Why, why??......This ain't fair..."
Seriously, is this what he deserves for all the contributions he's made for the American music, the music industry, the entertainment industry and music in general?
I can never ever get over it.


Of course, the songs got thrown together in a hurry, oh yes.
But could there be a worse scenario than the authenticity controvercy?:angry:
I mean, I could care less about the song selections when the album got treated like sh*t with the issue.
THE WORST TREATMENT EVER AN ARTIST REGARDING THEIR ALBUM, DEAD OR ALIVE, COULD GET, PERIOD :mat:

I seriously disagree. As much as I wish I could see him alive and promote his work, promotion effort does not affect the quality of music. Sometimes, hard-core fans can be the sharpest critics and they really know if the music is tight without being "swayed" by the personality.


Agreed.


Nice read. Thanks to the T/S!



I agree on every count.

After waiting nearly a decade for new material, after the trial of 2005 and then his death... we get an album which features songs that aren't even MJ singing. Not only is it insulting and hurtful to the fans, but even more so to Michael. And it's something that the fans who defend this record don't seem to understand. Michael was a perfectionist who took his art very seriously. He would've been mortified even more than the fans that this has happened. It's seriously shocking that it actually did happen. Who would've believed a record company as big as Sony would release fake songs of one of it's biggest artists?? It's an utter disgrace and I will never forgive the estate or Sony or the Cascio's.
 
I completely agree that the controversy was a shame.

But what i miss in some instances is GRATEFULNESS.

With the MICHAEL Album we (the fans) got some Michael Jackson Songs which are absolutely UP THERE with his other greats.
Even though they are unfinished & tweaked by producers without MJ's final say, this songs count to Michaels best works.
Hollywood Tonight, Behind The Mask, Hold My Hand, Keep Your Head Up.

What an ATOMIC BOMB Album MJ could have released already before 2009. One has to wrap his mind around an album which
includes aforementioned songs PLUS Escape, Slave 2 The Rhythm, Do You Know Where You're Children Are.

ALL KILLER is what comes to my mind.
 
And there it goes, this thread is ruined.

Go to the controversy section and click on the Michael album debate thread if you want to argue about the Cascio tracks.
 
I agree on every count.

After waiting nearly a decade for new material, after the trial of 2005 and then his death... we get an album which features songs that aren't even MJ singing. Not only is it insulting and hurtful to the fans, but even more so to Michael. And it's something that the fans who defend this record don't seem to understand. Michael was a perfectionist who took his art very seriously. He would've been mortified even more than the fans that this has happened. It's seriously shocking that it actually did happen. Who would've believed a record company as big as Sony would release fake songs of one of it's biggest artists?? It's an utter disgrace and I will never forgive the estate or Sony or the Cascio's.

If you or others like you would be more important individuals than I'm positive that Sony, Estate or Cascios would serve you with the court papers long time ago.

If Michael Jackson would be alive most people would not see even the rehearsals for TII. And they would miss a lot.

There are many people who are more fascinated in creative process than the finish product. And especially when the creator is gone.

I think that your only way now is just to change the object of your obsession and focus on someone alive.

After the artist's death it is natural and logical for most of the people to do a research and to find everything what could be add to an artist portfolio. And all the pieces won't be perfect. It's illogical to expect the perfection in something what MJ didn't released by himself. But they will be release soon or later because there are people who enjoy them in opposite to you.
 
And you are extremely boring. And also extremely fake. If you or others like you would be more important individuals than I'm positive that Sony, Estate or Cascios would serve you with the court papers long time ago.

If Michael Jackson would be alive most people would not see even the rehearsals for TII. And they would miss a lot.

There are many people who are more fascinated in creative process than the finish product. And especially when the creator is gone.

I think that your only way now is just to change the object of your obsession and focus on someone alive.

If you would be more logical with your thinking you would know that it is only yours (and others like you) opinion regarding the Cascio's songs.

After the artist's death it is natural and logical for most of the people to do a research and to find everything what could be add to an artist portfolio. And all the pieces won't be perfect. It's illogical to expect the perfection in something what MJ didn't released by himself. But they will be release soon or later because there are people who enjoy them in opposite to you.

Come to the album debate thread and we will soon show why fans like Mattyjam and others feel the way they do.

I agree with matty. The michael album was an insulting, exploitative disgrace and hopefully the truth will come out now that it is finally going to court. Like many others, I will not support any products that are treated in such a way.
 
And you are extremely boring. And also extremely fake. If you or others like you would be more important individuals than I'm positive that Sony, Estate or Cascios would serve you with the court papers long time ago.

If Michael Jackson would be alive most people would not see even the rehearsals for TII. And they would miss a lot.

There are many people who are more fascinated in creative process than the finish product. And especially when the creator is gone.

I think that your only way now is just to change the object of your obsession and focus on someone alive.


If you would be more logical with your thinking you would know that it is only yours (and others like you) opinion regarding the Cascio's songs.

After the artist's death it is natural and logical for most of the people to do a research and to find everything what could be add to an artist portfolio. And all the pieces won't be perfect. It's illogical to expect the perfection in something what MJ didn't released by himself. But they will be release soon or later because there are people who enjoy them in opposite to you.


Right. And it would be nice if the Cascios presented us some evidence of the creative process regarding their songs. They haven't up until now you know. I mean, we beg them to give us some footage, a few seconds, of Mike's singing and recording those songs. I wonder why they don't do it...
 
Come to the album debate thread and we will soon show why fans like Mattyjam and others feel the way they do.

I agree with matty. The michael album was an insulting, exploitative disgrace and hopefully the truth will come out now that it is finally going to court. Like many others, I will not support any products that are treated in such a way.

What can I say. Just good luck. In sixty years fans like you will be gone or unable to create that kind of stupid controversy and than the followers will have more chance to decide by themselves what they like and
what they don't. Maybe even everybody will have at home the device which can proof the authenticity of the recording. Right now I'm positive the professionals will win any battle.
 
What can I say. Just good luck. In sixty years fans like you will be gone or unable to create that kind of stupid controversy and than the followers will have more chance to decide by themselves what they like and
what they don't. Maybe even everybody will have at home the device which can proof the authenticity of the recording. Right now I'm positive the professionals will win any battle.

What professionals? We didn't create this controversy. It had already begun before the public heard Breaking News. The controversy was created by the people who chose to put JM songs on an MJ album. Come to the debate thread and we will show you. And what do you mean by fans like me? You mean fans who just want Michael's art to be respected? You think we want this?
 
What can I say. Just good luck. In sixty years fans like you will be gone or unable to create that kind of stupid controversy and than the followers will have more chance to decide by themselves what they like and
what they don't. Maybe even everybody will have at home the device which can proof the authenticity of the recording. Right now I'm positive the professionals will win any battle.

So Prince, Paris and Blanket are fooled by this "stupid controversy" as well? And Michael's own family? And at least half his fanbase??

Get a grip. You can believe it's Michael with all you heart, good luck to you, knock yourself out with that. But the TRUTH is, you're either a) deluding yourself or b) not that clued up on the tone of Michael Jackson's vocals.
 
Michael isnt terrible The Way You Love Me is the only song I tend to skip.

Same here. I prefer the original composed 100% by Michael. That's all.


I don't know. I thoroughly enjoy "Michael" despite the controversy. I have my thoughts and opinions on it and they allow me to be able to enjoy the music. Definitely not the best Michael Jackson album, but enjoyable nonetheless (to me anyway).

With Michael Jackson, there have been so many other distractions like the custody of his children, control of his estate and the Conrad Murray trial that his music has gotten lost in the shuffle. As impossible as it is to believe, one could argue that his music has been greatly overshadowed by all the other drama in his life.

While some people do tend to forget the man behind the music, I don't find this statement being close to the truth at all. There are more lovers than haters, ladies and gents.
 
And you are extremely boring. And also extremely fake. If you or others like you would be more important individuals than I'm positive that Sony, Estate or Cascios would serve you with the court papers long time ago.

If Michael Jackson would be alive most people would not see even the rehearsals for TII. And they would miss a lot.

There are many people who are more fascinated in creative process than the finish product. And especially when the creator is gone.

I think that your only way now is just to change the object of your obsession and focus on someone alive.

If you would be more logical with your thinking you would know that it is only yours (and others like you) opinion regarding the Cascio's songs.

After the artist's death it is natural and logical for most of the people to do a research and to find everything what could be add to an artist portfolio. And all the pieces won't be perfect. It's illogical to expect the perfection in something what MJ didn't released by himself. But they will be release soon or later because there are people who enjoy them in opposite to you.

If it makes you happy believing everything Sony tell you, then by all means, live in denial. But Michael himself had well-documented objections to the way that company was run. It is also well known that he didn't trust the men who are running his estate and that he had a serious falling out with one of the Cascio brothers (which was bought up in court transcripts from 2005). But if you want to invest all your trust in these people and ignore all of Michael's concerns, then who am I to stand in your way?

That's not taking into account the fact that the vocals on every single Cascio song we've heard sound strangely different to all the other songs Michael ever recorded. Rodney Jerkins said it didn't sound like Michael, the family said it didn't sound like him, his own kids said it wasn't him.
 
Right. And it would be nice if the Cascios presented us some evidence of the creative process regarding their songs. They haven't up until now you know. I mean, we beg them to give us some footage, a few seconds, of Mike's singing and recording those songs. I wonder why they don't do it...
[SUB][/SUB]

They don't have to and they don't need to. I would be more shocked if there would be no recording at all when a space and an equipment were available (even an amateur ones) and the trained musicians around during the time MJ stayed in Cascios house.

I can't imagine MJ sitting down and not joining the other musicians in creative process. There was no escape. The house is not that big. And if you believe that Michael would not use an opportunity to record at that time so you didn't know Michael Jackson at all.

I also don't believe MJ would not want to test Edie's skills as an adult musician and producer and this is what he was doing. It doesn't mean he would have to release it but there is no choice after his death. Some people will like it and some won't.

Unfortunately those who didn't like it for different reasons (and of course their followers) did create the controversy which was the reason the Michael Jackson's album did not debiut on the top of Billboard's chart.
 
They don't have to and they don't need to. I would be more shocked if there would be no recording at all when a space and an equipment were available (even an amateur ones) and the trained musicians around during the time MJ stayed in Cascios house.

I can't imagine MJ sitting down and not joining the other musicians in creative process. There was no escape. The house is not that big. And if you believe that Michael would not use an opportunity to record at that time so you didn't know Michael Jackson at all.

I also don't believe MJ would not want to test Edie's skills as an adult musician and producer and this is what he was doing. It doesn't mean he would have to release it but there is no choice after his death. Some people will like it and some won't.

Unfortunately those who didn't like it for different reasons (and of course their followers) did create the controversy which was the reason the Michael Jackson's album did not debiut on the top of Billboard's chart.


This comment make me sad, it really does. People have played with MJ's music legacy by releasing horrible and probably fake songs under his name and all you care is the fact that the album didn't make it on the Billboard chart. What can i say. Some people's preorities are killing me.
 
[SUB][/SUB]

They don't have to and they don't need to. I would be more shocked if there would be no recording at all when a space and an equipment were available (even an amateur ones) and the trained musicians around during the time MJ stayed in Cascios house.

I can't imagine MJ sitting down and not joining the other musicians in creative process. There was no escape. The house is not that big. And if you believe that Michael would not use an opportunity to record at that time so you didn't know Michael Jackson at all.

I also don't believe MJ would not want to test Edie's skills as an adult musician and producer and this is what he was doing. It doesn't mean he would have to release it but there is no choice after his death. Some people will like it and some won't.

Unfortunately those who didn't like it for different reasons (and of course their followers) did create the controversy which was the reason the Michael Jackson's album did not debiut on the top of Billboard's chart.

The controversy existed before Breaking News was even streamed. You do know about Thad Nauden right? And what musicians are you talking about? You really seem to be misinformed about the background to all this. Michael did record there: see Thriller 25. And yes many fans did boycott the album and we will continue to do so until Michael and the fans are given a little more respect. Please come to the debate thread so we don't derail this one.
 
This comment make me sad, it really does. People have played with MJ's music legacy by releasing horrible and probably fake songs under his name and all you care is the fact that the album didn't make it on the Billboard chart. What can i say. Some people's preorities are killing me.

Again you have yours opinions and others have theirs. It's only AN OPINION and NOT A FACT. If you would be able to change your opinion into the fact than it would be a different story.

And you probably forgot that it was Michael Jackson who did care about the Billboard charts very, very much. You may like it or not but this is
A FACT.
 
The controversy existed before Breaking News was even streamed. You do know about Thad Nauden right? And what musicians are you talking about? You really seem to be misinformed about the background to all this. Michael did record there: see Thriller 25. And yes many fans did boycott the album and we will continue to do so until Michael and the fans are given a little more respect. Please come to the debate thread so we don't derail this one.

Any person who is musically trained and makes money playing music has the right to be called a musician. And you can boycott the album as much as you want and there always will be the same number of people who love it. And it's very possible that they will say it in a letters to the Estate and to Cascios and not on this board.
At the end "Michael" album did pretty well except failing with topping the Billboard chart.
 
Again you have yours opinions and others have theirs. It's only AN OPINION and NOT A FACT. If you would be able to change your opinion into the fact than it would be a different story.

And you probably forgot that it was Michael Jackson who did care about the Billboard charts very, very much. You may like it or not but this is
A FACT.


Yes, Michael Jackson care very much about the salles and Billboard charts but he also care about something else that you have apparently forgot. Do you know what? Quality music. That is also a fact.
 
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