A philosophical insight into the short life of Michael Jackson.

What led to his death Directly is a Doctor called Conrad Murray, or rather, Con-rat Murder. Childhood (or his Lack of) can't be prosecuted and sent to jail.
 
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also he wasnt trying to be better then anyone :mad:he got some of his moves from street dancers and james brown :mad: how dare he say he wanted to be better he would appreciate any good dancer and for his singing how can you get better at it :mad:it came to him when he was 5 years old its called a gift it isnt called oh look at me :no::mad:that video isnt for a fan :no:
 
also he wasnt trying to be better then anyone :mad:he got some of his moves from street dancers and james brown :mad: how dare he say he wanted to be better he would appreciate any good dancer and for his singing how can you get better at it :mad:it came to him when he was 5 years old its called a gift it isnt called oh look at me :no::mad:that video isnt for a fan :no:

That's not what he was saying, Michael never felt that he should be better than anyone, but he did feel that people would love him more if he did something better than before, rather than seek love from people who love him for who he really was (there was people who loved him for who he was, but he was really insecure and didn't realize that until his children came along) which is the case with just about every superstar.
 
What led to his death Directly is a Doctor called Conrad Murray, or rather, Con-rat Murder. Childhood (or his Lack of) can't be prosecuted and sent to jail.

If he had a good childhood he wouldn't have ended up with the people around him who wanted to use him.
 
That too late to be saying something like: 'if he had a good childhood'. If at least a few things could be different today, we'd be happier people, that can be said too, only that things can't be different, it seems, and the past can't be changed. Maybe Joseph should have been arrested for taking his minor children to clubs, basically selling them to the devil for fame and money, using them. For taking Jackson's childhood away from him, beating and mocking him. Yeah, that can be said... but that'll never happen.
 
That too late to be saying something like: 'if he had a good childhood'. If at least a few things could be different today, we'd be happier people, that can be said too, only that things can't be different, it seems, and the past can't be changed. Maybe Joseph should have been arrested for taking his minor children to clubs, basically selling them to the devil for fame and money, using them. For taking Jackson's childhood away from him, beating and mocking him. Yeah, that can be said... but that'll never happen.
He was trying to replace that shattered childhood through external means (his beautiful Neverland ranch)

It's really tragic, and Stefan isn't trying to view Michael in a negative light, he is sympathizing with him.
 
An absolutley brilliant subjective piece that I agree with.Thank you for posting the link.Brilliant.
I think the point has been lost on some fans.The guy isin't blaming Michael Jackson or accusing him of anything.His main point is, if you don't deal with your issues from your past, they can manifest into things that can go wrong in your life. And that is simply true.
 
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I think the point has been lost on some fans.


No, it hasn't.

Maybe it was meant for Michael to die that early, he firmly believed in destiny. He suffered too long on this earth, but he loved life, and didn't even want to change his difficult childhood, because he said he wouldn't have cared for children enough to help as much as he did if it weren't for that.

However, for the cutting short of his life a "doctor" is responsible and for that justice must be served. He didn't want to die he wanted to be the father he always wanted to be for his children, and if it hadn't for this 'person, he certainly would have lived at least a year longer, more years even, but not just 50.. Bringing forward his childhood is futile, esp. in light of such a trying time, when this 'doctor's defense is grossly and falsely portraying Jackson as a self-killed drug addict, you're entering the gruelling world of the Here and Now, for Jackson is continuously and mercilessly still being killed.

If childhood should be blamed, then Joseph is to blame. He would have had a totally different life, a better one, one's guess is, for sure, but this can never happen. It was his complicated destiny, and those who contributed to that, without wishing anyone ill, will be faced with justice one day.
 
No, it hasn't.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

I am aware of how MJ felt about life,childhood and kids.I feel Conrad Murrey should be held responsible for his actions. But imo what led up to MJ using drugs in the first place was because of his passed issues.Issues that he needed help for and needed to deal with.Perhaps MJ toward the end was in a certain amount of denial.

MJ developed a dependancy on drugs (which is completely understandable given what he went through) due to certain passed traumas.Perhaps this is partly the reason why this "doctor" was there in the first place.

But to lay all of the blame at the feet of one person and one person only, is wrong in this instance. Alot of things happend in MJ's life that led up to June 25th.Joe Jackson abusing his kids, Childhood and not feeling loved, the pepsi accident in which he was badly burned, the 93 allegations, the 2004 allegations, 20 years of media rubbish, feeling misunderstood due to actually being misunderstood, these are all very heavy issues on their own.MJ had to deal with all of these.

Its not a question of "who's to blame?" Everyone and everything played a part, in the bigger picture, and that is essentially what the guy on youtube is getting at.He's not saying doctor Murrey isin't to blame,he's not saying Joe Jackson isin't to blame,he's not saying MJ isin't to blame.Its not about blame.It's about using Michael Jackson as an example of 'how a person can self destruct if they substitute materialistic things and not deal with their problems instead of seeking help,which can manifest itself into bad things and go horribly wrong.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree then.

But imo what led up to MJ using drugs in the first place was because of his passed issues.Issues that he needed help for and needed to deal with.Perhaps MJ toward the end was in a certain amount of denial.

He dealt with those issues in spite of all the madness in his life, and you listed some of them, so if you're gonna talk about Jackson being in a certain amount of denial that he had a problem, try to tell a pressured being to sleep, which was what he was suffering from towards his life. Although towards the end of his life he wasn't addicted to medication (that's the word, not drugs), the autopsy established that, not to mention blood tests run by nurse Cheryll Lee in the February of 2009, just a few months before his ordeal with the concerts began. There were a lot of them, and he couldn't sleep, he was sleep deprived. Of right. Nobody cared to reduce the amount of concerts he had to make, AEG, nobody, ecstatic fans were all up on his back asking from him to perform. He was very much focused and concerned with every single detail regarding touring, but sleep-deprived and a doctor, instead of taking care of him while he prepped for his tour, killed him. He told fans he only wanted to do 10 shows. Who and what exactly was gonna make he sleep with all that madness? He tried everything to go to sleep, and nothing worked. This topic has been much discussed, and your saying that he was in denial and all that is exactly what his 'doctor' and his defense and the media are coming up with. He couldn't sleep and he knew it and he couldn't eat much precisely because of lack of sleep and working a lot. He wasn't a drug addict, although it would have been totally human for what he'd been through.

But to lay all of the blame at the feet of one person and one person only, is wrong in this instance. Alot of things happend in MJ's life that led up to June 25th.Joe Jackson abusing his kids, Childhood and not feeling loved, the pepsi accident in which he was badly burned, the 93 allegations, the 2004 allegations, 20 years of media rubbish, feeling misunderstood due to actually being misunderstood, these are all very heavy issues on their own.MJ had to deal with all of these.

Exactly. More than one person was responsible with slowly killing him all his life, that's not being denied, I've made posts regarding that in a thread related to AEG, and was instantly yelled at for what some deemed me as siding with Murray just because I said there were many involved and that Murray was paid to do what he did. But that's not the topic here.

It's about using Michael Jackson as an example of 'how a person can self destruct if they substitute materialistic things and not deal with their problems instead of seeking help,which can manifest itself into bad things and go horribly wrong.

He sought help, he even had his doctor call nurse Cheryll Lee complaining about feeling ill, and the doctor should have taken him to the hospital, which he didn't. He dealt with his problems the best he could, given that he was always surrounded by untrustworthy people and he couldn't trust anyone, but wanted to. These kind of portrayals are generalistic, applied to those celebrities who died of overdoses and what not, and Jackson's situation is different, as he died at the hands of another, a 'doctor' that he hired to help him go on tour. Pressuring concerts he wanted to postpone of, if not cancel from. He wouldn't have needed painkillers, antidepressants and anti-anxiety ones if it weren't for this pressuring tour, yet his doctor abused his 'power' by eventually giving them to him to death. He didn't have any choice, apparently, with all the people that surrounded him. If, say, many fans told him or wrote to him via banners, "Michael, you don't need to do these many concerts", instead of asking him to come to their city and tour, if he didn't have large webs of mafia people pressuring him to do these shows, if he weren't sued left and right, he could've slept better and he would have been alive today. Nobody helped him, many wanted his money and name, not firstly concerning over his person, so he died like a dog assisted by incompetence in the end. He had no one to completely trust in his proximity outside his children. Yet he still made it to 50. He had his flaws,certainly, but that is not what killed him. He didn't know who to trust, so that's confusion.

'Denial'...

But whatever, I've exhausted my take on this..
 
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I think the thread has digressed down a road I really don't want to travel.The piece on youtube was what the thread was supposed to be about.About Stefan Molyneux and the fact that I agree with him and feel he's a good philosopher, but it's become another Doctor Conrad Murrey thread.I, like you Alma want to see justice served.Medication is drugs essentally.I'm sure your aware of that, or maybe using the word drugs pertaining to Michael Jackson is a dirty word to you.I don't know and don't really care. Michael Jackson was not some one who was holier than thou or exempt from making mistakes to me.He was just a human being who I love and respected for the passed 26 years, who was flawed like the rest of us and whom was a genius in his field.

I'm moving on from these points now as I didn't want to get into this anyway.

Peace.
 
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