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Status hearings discussion thread / all threads merged

  • Thread starter elusive moonwalker
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

elusive moonwalker said:
thanks. the quality is really bad i cant make hardly any of the dates out.if anyones got a magnifying (sp) glass to hand!
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Tthe first link (tmz link) is easier to read ( with a 130 % zoom ) !

:cheeky:

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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

elusive moonwalker said:
seems white knows very little about the case and it just giving his opinion based on what the defence have told him.wouldnt surprise me if he wants nothing to do with it when he founds out as hes gonna be embarassed on the stand.and if klien is being hostile to the defence and playing ball with the pros then he can debunk that theory straight away. i hardly doubt hes gonna want to get on the stand and say yeah i was giving mj loads of demoral for the sake of it and basically admit supplying to an addict
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See, this is why I don't understand how the defense can continue to run with the whole "A-word" theory. If that were really the case, then Murray should have been charged with "supplying" since he has claimed to have at least suspected that about Michael for awhile prior to Michael's death yet gave it to him anyway on that terrible day. And the police have already investigated all the other doctors and found nothing to charge them with. So to me, it makes that theory null and void.
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Kingofpop4ever3000 said:
See, this is why I don't understand how the defense can continue to run with the whole "A-word" theory. If that were really the case, then Murray should have been charged with "supplying" since he has claimed to have at least suspected that about Michael for awhile prior to Michael's death yet gave it to him anyway on that terrible day. And the police have already investigated all the other doctors and found nothing to charge them with. So to me, it makes that theory null and void.
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right again.. if that was the case Murray should've been charged with prescribing and administering to an addict. He claims that he believed that MJ 'was' forming an addiction to propofol after Murray was the only one giving it to him for allegedly 6 weeks, so he continues giving it to him even though he felt he was addicted? where is the administering to an addict charge then?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

StacyJ said:
right again.. if that was the case Murray should've been charged with prescribing and administering to an addict. He claims that he believed that MJ 'was' forming an addiction to propofol after Murray was the only one giving it to him for allegedly 6 weeks, so he continues giving it to him even though he felt he was addicted? where is the administering to an addict charge then?
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Exactly.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

StacyJ said:
right again.. if that was the case Murray should've been charged with prescribing and administering to an addict. He claims that he believed that MJ 'was' forming an addiction to propofol after Murray was the only one giving it to him for allegedly 6 weeks, so he continues giving it to him even though he felt he was addicted? where is the administering to an addict charge then?
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Propofol is not a controlled substance (at least, it wasn't then), and I think the "prescribing to an addict" charge is only for controlled substances such as narcotics. Even more telling, though, is that Klein was not charged with this -- which also negates the "demerol withdrawal theory."

Propofol is not physically addictive (although psychological dependence is possible with various medications.)
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

ok guys I almost have a heart attack when I started reading that document, then we you read really carefully you know it is not that bad really.

March one visit two injections

Pay very close attention April is the month during which MJ visited Klien the most and during which he received most of those IM injection and please don't forget that the days on which he received 3 or 4 injections there was a relatively serious cosmetic procedure.
Important questions:
1. when did the rehearsals start?
2. did anyone during this month complain that MJ seemed "out of it" ?
I believe the answer is NOOO .
April :
05 two
09 two
13 two
15 two
16 none
17 three he got botox
21 none
22 four
23 3
25 4
27 3
28 3
30 3

May :

04 three
05 three
06 one
16 one
19 one
20 one
21 one

June:
01 two
03 two
04 none
10 two
16 one
22 one

so if you notice the visits were more frequent at first and the doses were higher but still no one at that time was saying MJ seemed out of it.

After Murray was officially hired, the visits were lesser and the amounts were lesser but many observed physical and behavioural changes.

In the last month between 10 and 22 , he visited Klien three times in total and received 4 IM injections in total so how come he was a demerol addict and suffering from withdrawal symptoms ?
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

and again did Klein ever confirm what the IM injections were?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Soundmind said:
In the last month between 10 and 22 , he visited Klien three times in total and received 4 IM injections in total so how come he was a demerol addict and suffering from withdrawal symptoms ?
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He wasn't. (note six day gap in June. If addicted, that would not have been possible.)

I think "demerol addiction" will not be offered as a defense. It's so easily refuted!
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Autumn II said:
He wasn't. (note six day gap in June. If addicted, that would not have been possible.)

I think "demerol addiction" will not be offered as a defense. It's so easily refuted!
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they're claiming withdrawals which is still stupid.. My question is why didn't Murray call up Klein and ask him what was he giving his patient? why didn't Murray know or care what MJ was doing at Klein's office? He had to know he was going because we all knew he was going and it was caught on TMZ everyday. So why didn't the personal physician of MJ call up Klein to ask him what was going on?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Regarding those visits to Klein's office, has anyone noticed that Klein didn't see Michael for every visit? There were 2 others, Dr. Reyter and David Charles Rish, I presume an MD, who also are listed as treating him and giving him injections. Although the majority are from Klein. As far as I can make out, the injections all seem to be related to treatments with Restylane. As for the listing of IM injections, I wonder could this be a catch all listing to cover all types of injections? Just speculating here.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

StacyJ said:
they're claiming withdrawals which is still stupid.. My question is why didn't Murray call up Klein and ask him what was he giving his patient? why didn't Murray know or care what MJ was doing at Klein's office? He had to know he was going because we all knew he was going and it was caught on TMZ everyday. So why didn't the personal physician of MJ call up Klein to ask him what was going on?
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Why not? Because IMO he is a bumbling, incompetent, sociopathic fool, or worse, who seems to be incapable of telling the truth -- regardless of how many "character witnesses" are trotted out? What are they going to say anyway? "He must be a good doctor, because I'm still ALIVE?" Wow.

If "withdrawal" is a primary defense strategy, then that's a whole lot of NOTHING.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Autumn II said:
Why not? Because IMO he is a bumbling, incompetent, sociopathic fool, or worse, who seems to be incapable of telling the truth -- regardless of how many "character witnesses" are trotted out? What are they going to say anyway? "He must be a good doctor, because I'm still ALIVE?" Wow.

If "withdrawal" is a primary defense strategy, then that's a whole lot of NOTHING.
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I agree.. those character witnesses have nothing to do with MJ. The first and only question they all should be asked is if Murray gave them propofol at home in the bed and left them alone while he chit chatted with his 24 year old girlfriend?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Soundmind said:
April :
05 two
09 two
13 two
15 two
16 none
17 three he got botox
21 none
22 four
23 3
25 4
27 3
28 3
30 3
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thanks for this ! :agree:
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

cinzia said:
Regarding those visits to Klein's office, has anyone noticed that Klein didn't see Michael for every visit? There were 2 others, Dr. Reyter and David Charles Rish, I presume an MD, who also are listed as treating him and giving him injections. Although the majority are from Klein. As far as I can make out, the injections all seem to be related to treatments with Restylane. As for the listing of IM injections, I wonder could this be a catch all listing to cover all types of injections? Just speculating here.
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FYI. So much for the Demerol, for Restylane.

@font-face { font-family: "Cambria"; }p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; } http://www.plasticsurgeryportal.com/restylane/2003091816554650865753


What types of anesthesia is necessary for Restylane?
Anesthesia is not necessary with Restylane, however, some patients may opt for a topical numbing cream to rubbed on the injection site before treatment.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

welcome bouee :)
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

cinzia said:
As for the listing of IM injections, I wonder could this be a catch all listing to cover all types of injections? Just speculating here.
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yes, it could be that, we don't know what these injections were.

I'm assuming they found demerol or pain killers in the hair tox result, but the defense is obviously in a creative spirit, who knows how creative they can get ?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

As for the listing of IM injections, I wonder could this be a catch all listing to cover all types of injections? Just speculating here.
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we are just refuting the worst scenario possible so we would not be surprised during the trial and even if we assume all the IM injections were demerol , there is still absolutely no evidence he was addicted to demerol, it's actually the opposite. And further evidence White was misinformed , I can't believe that he really have the guts to get on the stand and testify that MJ was an addict to demerol that recieved at most one injection every 6 days . lol
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

This doctor the defense wants to use what kind of doctor is he?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Autumn II said:
FYI. So much for the Demerol, for Restylane.

@font-face { font-family: "Cambria"; }p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; } http://www.plasticsurgeryportal.com/restylane/2003091816554650865753


What types of anesthesia is necessary for Restylane?
Anesthesia is not necessary with Restylane, however, some patients may opt for a topical numbing cream to rubbed on the injection site before treatment.
Click to expand...

I was thinking more along these lines:
The good news about lips is that it doesn't have to be painful, at the time of the procedure, however both HA fillers (Restylane and Juvederm) may swell, after the procedure and cause some discomfort. I offer patients both dental blocks as well as topical anesthetic cream and cooling. I also use a 32 gauge needle. Having a patient who is psychologically prepared for a procedure is also a great help (i.e. knowing how much augmentation you desire and what would suit your face).

Between the two fillers, it's been my impression that Juvederm causes slightly less swelling and discomfort. But remember that in order to avoid the "trout pout", you should be patient and commit yourself to a series of lip injections, so that the desired result can be built up, slowly and with an aesthetic sense.
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http://www.realself.com/question/How-painful-are-Restylane-injections-Love-your-lips

Other plastic surgeons talk about nerve blocks, numbing cream, ice packs, quite a variety. That's more or less what I was thinking the injections might refer to. Although they wouldn't be IM. Since Klein averages about 45 minutes per procedure, according to his site, I would think he might use some sort of a block. Otherwise, can't imagine all that 'sculpting' using just numbing cream. But what do I know. It would be interesting to know more about his procedure. And if it can cause discomfort afterwards, why wouldn't a pain med be appropriate? Everyone has a different pain threshold.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

the best propofol expert out there according to Falgan who commented further : "this is a fact known by Walgarn himself"

other expert is a known media whore, a psychiatric .I believe he will explain the roots of MJ's insomnia analyze MJ's mental ability. he sure is going to blame it on his so called "addiction" or should I say 'psychological addiction' lol since there is no evidence of physical addiction of course that if he is even allowed by the judge to take the stand, he had never met the patient he is going to analyze so how come he could reach any conclusions on MJ's state of mind ?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Soundmind said:
the best propofol expert out there according to Falgan who commented further : "this is a fact known by Walgarn himself"

other expert is a known media whore, a psychiatric .I believe he will explain the roots of MJ's insomnia analyze MJ's mental ability. he sure is going to blame it on his so called "addiction" or should I say 'psychological addiction' lol since there is no evidence of physical addiction of course that if he is even allowed by the judge to take the stand, he had never met the patient he is going to analyze so how come he could reach any conclusions on MJ's state of mind ?
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Well unless the media ho has talked to Michael in the pass good luck at trying to figure out what the root of his insomnia. And I would think that using an expertt on propofol even the best in the world is a little strange when trying to dispute a cause of death. I would think a pathologists would be better but you know me and my high school diploma
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

how can a psychiatrist who has never met or spoken to MJ testify to his mental health?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

and this best propofol expert in the world is going to say Murray giving MJ propofol at home for insomnia without monitoring him is ok in his book?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Time to reach for that glass of wine I've been avoiding.

What possible bearing could Michael's state of mind have on this? I hope the prosecution goes after murray's state of mind(lessness) . THAT at least has relevance here. And all this addiction crap is so irrelevant. I get so angry thinking that the defense is probably going to go down this road to nowhere. Sure, we should get ourselves prepared for the worst, but it seems so laughable in a horrible way.
Maybe murray is running out of money and this is the reduced budget defense...
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

I hate speculating on this, much less on Michael's doctor visits which now everyone can see what they consisted in So, again, a gross invasion of privacy. But since the trial/defense attorneys are lusting for 'dirt', my one speculation on this would be that the IM injcts could be/could also be Prednisone, which is generally used for some of the following (acc to Wikipedia): Prednisone can be used in autoimmune diseases, inflammatory diseases (such as severe asthma, severe allergies, juvenile dermatomyositis, angioedema episodes, severe urushiol-induced contact dermatitis, systemic lupus erythematosus, ulcerative colitis, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, Still's disease, Bell's palsy, idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, Crohn's disease, pemphigus and sarcoidosis), uveitis, various kidney diseases including nephrotic syndrome, mononucleosis, Epstein-Barr virus, and to prevent and treat rejection in organ transplantation.

That's it for me on this.. What a crap trial filled with character defamations ( Michael's) is going to be regardless. If Murray gets convicted, at Least he'll rest assured his mindless retaliation on his famous patient whose death he (Murray) caused will be on every time half-truths and pseudo-expertize people are to happen, if it will. He'll know what crap the masses will remain with from this trial that's once again aimed to discredit Jackson not only as a human being, but as a father, man, son, most of all cause he is no longer here to defend himself, so ongoing assassinations are bound to happen, which I hope the prosecution will somehow debunk.
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

StacyJ said:
how can a psychiatrist who has never met or spoken to MJ testify to his mental health?
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He holds out his hand for a large sum of money then climbs up on the witness stand. He lists his many qualifications as the eyes of the jury fight to stay open. Then, with a noble look, he commences to emote with great feeling the words he has rehearsed with the defense. When the jury is sufficiently comatose, he departs. :D

@Alma Yes concur! And because he received numerous injections, they were probably for a variety of medications.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Will Klein be forced to talk? maybe he will again claim that he diagnosed MJ with Lupus. Didn't he say that once?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

And I would think that using an expertt on propofol even the best in the world is a little strange when trying to dispute a cause of death. I would think a pathologists would be better but you know me and my high school diploma
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even in the autopsy report the coroner could not himself determine whether MJ did it or not and he had to ask an anesthesiologist.

Dr.Calmes V Dr.White.

Dr.Calmes did not provide any written report beside the two pages listed in the autopsy report.

Dr.White is willing to meet prosecutors so I'm sure they may have very well by now paid him a visit .

The defence needs an anesthesiologist who would testify that MJ could have injected himself with the quantity of 10cc syringe before he lost conscious.


What possible bearing could Michael's state of mind have on this? I hope the prosecution goes after murray's state of mind(lessness) . THAT at least has relevance here. And all this addiction crap is so irrelevant. I get so angry thinking that the defense is probably going to go down this road to nowhere. Sure, we should get ourselves prepared for the worst, but it seems so laughable in a horrible way.
Maybe murray is running out of money and this is the reduced budget defense...
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"psychological dependency" and Murray's decision to give 50 and 25 mg that made no sense at all. That's why it is essential to bring an expert that would say " yeah 50 mg daily was not enough to do anything but the guy was psychologically dependent on it and once he believed he was receiving it he slept , the amount was very little true, all credit to Dr.Murray , please dear jurors don't consider that a sign of Jackson not being an addict...etc" he will go 'deep' inside a man he never met and explain to the jurors why MJ "psychological addiction" caused his "desperation and frustration 'that morning and led him to inject the last dose. I'm telling you the defence is very predictable .

That's IF the judge allows the defence to go there.
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Soundmind said:
even in the autopsy report the coroner could not himself determine whether MJ did it or not and he had to ask an anesthesiologist.

Dr.Calmes V Dr.White.

Dr.Calmes did not provide any written report beside the two pages listed in the autopsy report.

Dr.White is willing to meet prosecutors so I'm sure they may have very well by now paid him a visit .

The defence needs an anesthesiologist who would testify that MJ could have injected himself with the quantity of 10cc syringe before he lost conscious.




"psychological dependency" that's why it is essential to bring an expert who would say " yeah 50 mg daily was not enough to do anything but the guy was psychologically dependent on it and once he believed he was receiving it he slept , the amount was very little true, all credit to Dr.Murray , please dear jurors don't consider that a sign of Jackson not being an addict...etc" he will go 'deep' inside a man he never met and explain to the jurors why MJ "psychological addiction" caused his "desperation and frustration 'that morning and led him to inject the last dose.

That's IF the judge allows the defence to go there.
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The defense can try and bring in any psychologist they choose to say this..however ..this Dr. having never met MJ..wont know what his mind set was. ..it will only be his opinion of what someone with a dependency would be thinking...but ..that is only one of Murray's many lies...he has told so many...they can pay this psychologist a billion dollars if they wanted to for hm to AGREE with the defense....again...this doctor had NO IDEA what Michael's state of mind was on June 25th...so his testimony is irrelevant in my opinion.
 
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