Angel
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This and also the experience for me as a fan was ruined the day I saw that damn ambulance going out the gates.:no: Never be the same again.
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Will.i.am & Akon Continue To Disagree Over Jackson Album
- Thread starter StacyJ
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This and also the experience for me as a fan was ruined the day I saw that damn ambulance going out the gates.:no: Never be the same again.
144000
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the living beatles are the beatles. they qualify as legitimate, for beatles music and that's only 2 songs in 40 years. Michael Jackson is Michael Jackson. sony is not Michael Jackson. and the estate is not Michael Jackson. and we still don't know that Michael said 'do just anything you want' to the estate. and we can't determine what condition the unfinished writings were in, as you are determining. you might call it genius, but he said he was a perfectionist. he didn't just throw anything out there. neither should anybody else. part of his genius was he knew the state of his songs best. perfectionist meant he actually didn't think some stuff was good enough. other artists that worked with him actually told of him saying some stuff was not good enough. and some stuff had to be worked on more than the artists who worked with him thought. he didn't rapid fire put stuff out, just because it was there, like most artists did. different periods of his life..as far as not releasing anything, while he was alive, outside those five albums? maybe that's something to consider. he had wanted to retire, and people begged him to tour. he had said he did it all. he put out only 5 new albums. he didn't put out 15 albums..even with all the writing he was doing. so very few he deemed finished. his being a perfectionist holds weight to it. so we don't have to figure out what the situation was. if he didn't display his perfectionism, so much, and didn't care what was released, then, maybe, we shouldn't care either. but he cared. and that's saying something. the rest of the world certainly doesn't have the knowledge either.
and back to the beatles.. even with that..free bird and real love? i don't recall or remember those as hits, on the order of 'let it be' and 'yesterday'. so, whether they were a huge gift is up for debate. the only stuff that gets regular rerelases are songs like 'yesterday' 'elenor rigby', and 'let it be' and songs that are memorable and considered legendary hits. the beatles haven't allowed anybody outside the beatles to authorize unknown beatles stuff to be released.
once more, back to Michael. when he was here, Invincible was heavily criticized. people(including fans) were fickle about his music and everything else about him. high expectations. now, that he's gone, people want everything. it's an unfair change..even with his death. the truth is, when we are like that, we are only thinking of ourselves. not what's best for Michael's legacy. maybe his children know best. maybe it's in thier hands, years from now. meanwhile, he said great music never dies. so, off the wall thru invincible is alive for generations to come. he released those. those can be qualified as the great music that never dies.
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wolfrevenant
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If you're referring to people like Will.i.am, I don't believe he is in anyway "manipulating" the fanbase. We all feel differently about how Michael and his legacy should be respected. I don't believe Will.i.am's words was the cause of some fans feeling negative towards the album. And you know what? It might have been a "healing moment" for some fans, but not all, you can't expect Michael's fans to see eye-to-eye all the time.
True, it doesn't matter what some of us feel since all the decisions are in the hands of the estate. But I feel they only represent Michael's wishes of keeping his finances healthy before his children are old enough, and not entirely "Michael's wishes".
The thought of another Billie Jean phenomenon dusted up somewhere just excites me. But personally, I still don't feel it's right to just demand for things for ourselves. It might be good for Michael's legacy, but somehow I feel the man comes first before his legacy. And it doesn't feel right to just put all our "wants" before the man just because he is gone. I'm all for projects that might help Michael's legacy, but not if it could be against the man's wishes. And knowing the perfectionist that Michael always was, and the amount of pride and effort he put into his music, he just might not be pleased with his music being handled with, without his consent.
I used to want as many of Michael's stuff released as possible, but the more I hear of fans feeling they have the "right" to Michael's stuff since it was "what he would have wanted", the more guilty I feel of demanding stuff from him. It's like, in his life we were all "want this and want that", but even in death, we are still "want this and want that". I'm not faulting anyone over this, it's just my guilt feeling...
And in a way, if Michael wanted stuff done for the sake of his fans, don't you think a Bad Tour DVD would have been released long ago, since it was one of the things the fans always wanted? Just a thought...
Sophielo
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I think will.i.am is being a tad hypcritical here. I understand his feelings about it but Mike didn't leave hundreds of unreleased songs in a vault for no reason at all. Its important that his legacy continues. We'll always have the classics and they are eternal classics but Michael's music is a wonderful gift that he left for us to enjoy. I love hearing new music. It makes me feel just for those precious couple of seconds that we's still here.
JMie
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well, to each their own, I guess. some people choose to boycott the album and be negative and bitter about it. I choose to welcome it with open arms because now that Michael is gone, this new music is the only tiny bit of his magic that we can get. I mean, Thriller will always be Thriller and Man in the Mirror will always be Man in the Mirror, but if there's a chance of hearing something else from Michael though the official sources like the Estate (as opposite to all sorts of leaks), I will support those releases.
Besides, Michael said himself, that the reason why there were only 5 albums was not because he didn't have enough finished material, it was because he didn't want to oversaturate the public and make them long for his new albums instead, which was genious marketing, although I still wish we had more albums cause I love listening to his voice.
MICHAEL JACKSON left people HE CHOSE in charge of his estate after his death.
Respect MICHAEL JACKSON's wishes, and stop pretending you know what he would want.
That goes out to Will i am and all those who want to argue against the people MICHAEL JACKSON left in charge.
Respect MICHAEL JACKSON's wishes, and stop pretending you know what he would want.
That goes out to Will i am and all those who want to argue against the people MICHAEL JACKSON left in charge.
144000
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right now, you are calling fans who oppose what you saying, 'negative and bitter' that sounds like someone who is thinking of themself, by attacking other fans. we're just aligning ourselves with whatever MIchael said. if he said 'release any old thing', we would have aligned ourself with that.
and his genius marketing speaks for what we have been saying about not releasing any old thing. he did say, many times, that he didn't think a lot of stuff was good enough to be released, while other artists thought he was being too much of a perfectionist. i prefer what he said. and just because someone is 'official' doesn't mean they know what they're doing without specific instruction from Michael. that we might not have heard. the one specific instruction he gave to the estate was 'don't sell the catalogue'.that doesn't mean tamper with the music. and Man in the Mirror and Thriller are magic that we have left. and we just can't think of ourselves. other generations will welcome the classics. as die hard fans, we are naturally going to demand stuff, without consideration for the new generations that haven't heard what we already heard. the classics.
and it's not like we are against anything sony is releasing. we're all for the vision box set. MJ sanctioned all that. and that helps the estate and the children, without any worry of tampering from outside sources, because MJ already released that stuff. he said great music never dies. so, THriller will never die. it will support the estate for generations to come. so will Bad, Invincible, Dangerous, Blood on the dancefloor and HIStory. just as 'yesterday' and 'hey jude' have been supporting the beatles estate for forty years.
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wolfrevenant
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He chose them, yes. But to keep his estate healthy until his children are old enough to take over, not to fulfill all his wishes and deepest desires.
We're not "pretending" we know what he wants, we're just "considering" what he might have wanted. I don't think anyone knows for sure what Michael truly wants, regarding the release of the posthumous album. Probably, not even the estate's executors, unless he put in words what exactly they're supposed to release and what not to on his will.
But this is exactly why you choose certain people in your 'Will' and not others.
You don't leave them instructions in the smallest details - you shouldn't have to - but you trust them to do their best.
If we go against everything The Estate do (and some people are against EVERYTHING they do), then we are going against Michael's wishes.
144000
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Michael once allowed Mark Geragos in charge of his court case, but then fired him.
so, just because MJ left someone in charge of his affairs, doesn't mean he didn't leave specific instruction on what to do, as opposed to dangerously leaving them guessing to the point where they might make their desires his desires.
deano vbmenu_register("postmenu_3093955", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfrevenant
He chose them, yes. But to keep his estate healthy until his children are old enough to take over, not to fulfill all his wishes and deepest desires.
We're not "pretending" we know what he wants, we're just "considering" what he might have wanted. I don't think anyone knows for sure what Michael truly wants, regarding the release of the posthumous album. Probably, not even the estate's executors, unless he put in words what exactly they're supposed to release and what not to on his will.
But this is exactly why you choose certain people in your 'Will' and not others.
You don't leave them instructions in the smallest details - you shouldn't have to - but you trust them to do their best.
If we go against everything The Estate do (and some people are against EVERYTHING they do), then we are going against Michael's wishes
nobody knows Michael's wishes but Michael. so yes, they do have to know exactly what Michael wants. otherwise their guesses are as good as ours. he trusted many people, and they burned him. so, if we supported those who burned him, even though he first trusted them, are we going against michael's wishes? no. so it makes sense for him to be specific.
Fentman
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I agree. The entire thing has gotten out of hand.
I have no doubt whatsoever that MJ is fine with his unreleased tracks coming out.
Why? Because Michael loved to be loved. He loved to make people happy with his art. He wanted to create a legacy that would live forever.
So why on earth would he not want music he worked out to be heard by his fans in death? It makes no sense.
Yes, he would prefer to put his finishing touches on the music. But he can't. So the solution is never to release it? That is illogical. He didn't put his finishing touches on some of the songs on the Ultimate Collection. And he allowed "Can't get outta the rain" to see the light of day. LOL
Michael wrote songs. Worked on songs. Laid down vocals on songs. And he did all of that with the idea of his fans hearing the music.
"Michael" will be his sixth No. 1 solo album (It's a shame OTW peaked at NO. 3 in the U.S.). Does anyone really believe that M.J. wouldn't be thrilled by that?
I think people are over analyzing all of this. MJ was an entertainer and he's entertaining his fans even in death.
As for the money and the estate. Didn't Michael set up the estate? Wasn't it done so to handle the business of Michael Jackson after he was gone?
So let these people that MJ picked do their business.
As long as I don't see Michael Jackson slot machines in Las Vegas, I'll be happy. But give me all the Michael music that is out there for me to hear because it's one of the things I live for.
Will.i.am needs to get over himself. Quincy needs to relax. Let Michael's art and talents flow until they can't flow no more.
Fentman
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If Michael didn't want past works released he would have destroyed them or put in his will that he didn't want it released.
Seriously, people, this is silly. No way in hell Michael would not want to have more hits and No. 1 albums after death.
Anyone who thinks that simply wasn't paying attention all of these years.
The man wanted and craved to be loved. The whole world loves him again and I have zero doubt that he'd want to see that love fed with new music.
Seriously, people, this is silly. No way in hell Michael would not want to have more hits and No. 1 albums after death.
Anyone who thinks that simply wasn't paying attention all of these years.
The man wanted and craved to be loved. The whole world loves him again and I have zero doubt that he'd want to see that love fed with new music.
JMie
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I am not attacking anybody. I am just naming the things for what they are. there are two groups of fans now, one group is negative about the album, and the other group is positive. That's not an attack, that's a fact.
as for aligning with whatever Michael said, didn't you say in your previous posts that we can't know what Michael would want? well, that's true, we don't know. there might be more things in the will that weren't made public, Michael might have discussed his vision with people he appointed administrators of the Estate years ago. We just don't know. But one thing is clear: Michael trusted those people enough to choose them to manage his estate when he would be gone and to represent him in the music industry for years to come. Michael was a wise man, he knew exactly what the Estate was supposed to be and what the administrators were supposed to be doing. And he chose people he thought would be good for the job. We all should respect that, because that was Michael's wish.
Also, you can't say that Michael was about to retire and never release any music at all, when we know that he was working in the studio and was preparing an album for release after This Is It shows. So here they are, fulfilling Michael's wish and releasing his album. We just have to accept that now the Estate represents Michael. And the truth is so far the Estate did a very good job with all the projects. There was not a single thing that made me stop and question the Estate's intentions. And I hope they will continue honor Michael and his legacy despite all the people who want to interfere and ruin everything.
Asking someone to repesent you in one court case - one of a hundred in MJ's case - is a lot different from asking someone to look after the requests of your (one and only) 'Last Will and Testament' after you have died!!
Surely you see the difference here!?
My cat needed collecting from the vets last week, and I trusted it to my next door neighbour. As much as I like my next door neighbour - she loves cats but she's a bit 'scatty' - I have not made her 'executor' of my 'Will'. I have left that to my most respected friends & family.
You only leave your 'Will' in the hands of people you trust the most. RESPECT Michael's wishes.
144000
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we have been paying attention. he wasn't desperate. you pass him off as desperate. he was in vegas once, and people wanted him to perform and he said no. countless times, he said no to people. he didn't give just anything everybody wanted, out of desperation for love. and we don't know the contents of the will, fully. nobody gives all that info to a stranger, no matter how many tmz's are out there.
:28 AM #46 deano vbmenu_register("postmenu_3093971", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 144,000
Michael once allowed Mark Geragos in charge of his court case, but then fired him.
so, just because MJ left someone in charge of his affairs, doesn't mean he didn't leave specific instruction on what to do, as opposed to dangerously leaving them guessing to the point where they might make their desires his desires.
Asking someone to repesent you in one court case - one of a hundred in MJ's case - is a lot different from asking someone to look after the requests of your (one and only) 'Last Will and Testament' after you have died!!
Surely you see the difference here!?
My cat needed collecting from the vets last week, and I trusted it to my next door neighbour. As much as I like my next door neighbour - she loves cats but she's a bit 'scatty' - I have not made her 'executor' of my 'Will'. I have left that to my most respected friends & family.
You only leave your 'Will' in the hands of people you trust the most. RESPECT Michael's wishes.
and deano, you're not talking about respecting MIchael's wishes. you're speaking for your wishes. you still don't know the contents of the will. you don't know how specific MJ was. and that ONE court case was life or death. prison or freedom.
you are assuming he told the executors 'do what you want'. well, MJ once told TMez, he doesn't trust ANYBODY, after the 2005 case. so, you can't be certain MJ didn't leave SPECIFIC instructions to those executors, or if he didn't save the best stuff for his KIDS.
nobody knows Michael's wishes. but they do know his SAYINGS and INSTRUCTIONS. he's not dumb. if he had wishes, he let people know about them. and we DO respect whatever he SAID.
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L.T.D
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Michael wrote his will in July 2002. A lot can change in that time.
JMie
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but apparently nothing changed because Michael didn't change the will
MoonWalkinYiddo
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Well I think MJ would have wanted us to hear the songs. His previous songs are not going to be diminished by the release of this material, so no harm can be done to his legacy at all.
144000
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there were reports of another will in 2007. or amendment to the original will, in 2007.
MoonWalkinYiddo vbmenu_register("postmenu_3093978", true);
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Well I think MJ would have wanted us to hear the songs. His previous songs are not going to be diminished by the release of this material, so no harm can be done to his legacy at all.
usually fans are worried about what the general public will say. so, is it that this time, nobody is worried that the general public will think that the tainted songs are the new Michael Jackson?
JMie
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do you believe that a will prepared by a team of lawyers and signed by several unrelated witnesses can just disappear and none of those people involved in preparing the document would step forward and let the judge know about it?
L.T.D
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Well i've never known anyone have a falling out with someone and then think, 'Oh I better go and change my will'.
I'm not saying he would have any reason to change his will. I'm just saying that it was wrote 8 years ago and a lot can change in that time.
wolfrevenant
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As far as I know, an estate executor is there to ensure that the person's expressed desires in a will is fullfilled. So as long as Michael didn't have an instruction somewhere to say what songs he wants specifically released, or whether he wants everything released, I will still be keeping an eye on what projects they take up because they are not Michael's wishes (unless there's some debt or creditor's claim out there that desperately needs attention to, then maybe it is indirectly fulfilling his wishes).
In the meantime, I trust the executors to keep Michael's estate healthy until PPB formally take over. That is, paying back debts, protecting the assets, taking care of creditors' claims, paying taxes, that sort of stuff.
Now, I'm not against everything the estate does. I mean, I'm not bashing the Vision boxset because it contains stuff already released (which means, Michael already approved of them), apart from maybe One More Chance, but that's another story. I'm not against the Michael Jackson Experience either, even though I find some of its choreography rather embarrassing to look at.
144000
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ok, your last line is noted, but we do respect his wishes. he made known through the years his wishes concerning his music. he stated them out loud, and we respect them, and we respect Michael. a lot of times, people ignored what he said, and decided they'd 'respect' what they didn't hear, to mask their own desires. we respect the wishes of Michael. we don't respect somebody replacing his wishes with their own. like we said, whatever he said, goes. he asked for the upkeep of the estate, not for somebody to write his new song, in his place.
i didn't say anybody made the 2002 will disappear. i said he made a new one in 2007, and i'm sure he let people know about that one, too.
JMie
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that's the one I was asking about - 2007 one. if he did make a new will in 2007, then that's the only will that is valid. so do you believe all the people involved in preparing the 2007 will decided for whatever reasons to keep their mouths shut and make sure no one will find out about it? that's a conspiracy theory..
Will i am needs to stop pretending he knew MJ better than anyone else - and so do a few people on forums like this.
I see MJ didn't change his 'Will' to leave Will i am (no pun intended) in charge of his Legacy. There's a good reason for that.
I see MJ didn't change his 'Will' to leave Will i am (no pun intended) in charge of his Legacy. There's a good reason for that.
MoonWalkinYiddo
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wolfrevenant
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Will.i.am knows Michael as much as Michael felt he needed to know. Whether you can consider that as knowing someone "better than anyone else", is anyone's guess.
Matter of fact is, no one on this forum should behave like they knew MJ better. Because we can only judge based on what Michael had chosen to present to us.