The Death Certificate - Real Or Not?

• We know Murray wouldnt sign it. I wonder why he refused to sign it?
• No UCLA Dr would sign it. What did they have a problem with that they didn't want their signature on MJ's death certificate?
• LaToya signed as an informant on the DC. That's 2 family members who have filled in where a Dr is supposed to make it official. This here and Jermaine announcing MJs death.
• So no Dr has signed the DC therefore it is invalid.
• All 3 different DC were issued on 7/7/09 which is the same day as the memorial.
• DC states "Decedents Residence: 4641 Hayvenhurst Avenue." Michael lived at 100 North Carolwood Dr.

I keep seeing the whole barcode issue brought back up on multiple forums asking why there are different barcodes on the death certificate.
What you are looking at is a census tract number.
They are different on almost every copy you come across. Census tract numbers can change sometimes when there have been multiple certificates released.

Census tract numbers are just numbers that track things like: age, place of residence, race, cause of death..ect.

The odd thing about the death certificate is that there are so many copies floating around.

Look at the black lines on each certificate at the top and at the bottom, they are all the same on each one..running through the most important text.
"This is a true certified copy of the record filed in the county of Los Angeles"
"Department of Health Services"

Here is an example how death certificates are made:

The black box that you are seeing in the image above is an information sheet that is given to a relative to fill out, once completed it is then typed up onto carbon paper. This is where these lines on Michael's numerous death certificates are coming from. Carbon paper is not translucent. So..how are we getting these lines on the death certificate's that are actually cutting through the text but we are still able to see the full text? If this carbon paper was laid over part of the text it would block it off from veiw.

Also-How is that possible to print off a death certificate numerous times and get the same exact lines on each one? Unless you photocopy..and seeing that they have different barcodes it debunks photocopying.

There has also been speculation on whether or not the death certificates have been signed.

I think we can come to the conclusion that the death certificate has not been signed by hand. If it had been we would see some sort of loop or something between the black box and the box itself..not everyone would sign their name to fit in that black box. so we can only speculate whether or not there is a electronic signature there or not. But if there were, why hide it?

It only takes a few days to create a death certificate. But it took almost 2 weeks for Mikes, stamped July 7th.

Patrick Swayze's was issued in 3 days. And there is only one copy of Patrick's that has been released.

Here is a copy of Swayze's death certificate-
http://www.starmagazine.com/media/originals/Swayze_Death_Cert2.jpg

And just to add to the weirdness...take a look at the top of Swayze's death certificate, there are two circles one with a "V" on the left and one with a "R" on the right. I didn't see that on Michael's death certificate.

In my opinion, the death certificate is fake.

Do you remember this?

Harvey said he learned that coroner’s employees were inappropriately accessing Jackson’s death certificate after he received a tip alleging that a funeral home employee created a fake death certificate for Jackson in the computer system.

That would explain a lot..wouldn't it?

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Background info on Death Certificates - General/Highlighted

Postby Solid121 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:47 am
A death certificate is the official document that declares a person is dead. Death certificates serve two purposes: they prevent murder cover-ups by restricting those who can complete them for non-natural deaths to trained officials who generally have great latitude on whom they perform postmortem examinations, and they provide public health statistics. In the United States, Great Britain, and most industrialized countries, physicians must now sign a death certificate listing the presumed cause of death. Otherwise, a medical examiner (forensic pathologist) will intervene with an autopsy to determine the cause of death in the event that a case requires police investigation.

People use death certificates in multiple ways. Survivors need death certificates to obtain burial permits, make life insurance claims, settle estates, and obtain death benefits. Public health departments look for patterns that may signal specific health problems, such as clusters of cancers that may reveal unknown toxic waste dumps.

There are three types of death certificates in the United States, including a standard certificate, one for medical/legal cases, and one for fetal or stillborn deaths. All but two states require a death certificate for fetal deaths. However, the majority of states only require a certificate if the fetus was past twenty weeks of gestation. All are based on the international form agreed to in 1948 (modified for clarity in the United States in the 1990s). This form lists the immediate cause of death (e.g., heart attack, stroke), conditions that resulted in the immediate cause of death (e.g., gunshot wound to the chest), and other significant medical conditions (e.g., hypertension, atherosclerotic coronary artery disease, or diabetes). The form also includes a place to record whether an autopsy was performed and the manner of death such as natural, accident, suicide, homicide, could not be determined, or pending investigation.

Death certificates are occasionally used to fake a person's death for insurance fraud and to evade law enforcement officials or irate relatives. "Official" Los Angeles County death certificates, for example, were readily available in the mid-1990s for between $500 and $1,000 each. For fraudulent purposes, people have often used death certificates from remote nations and from countries in turmoil.

To complete death certificates, funeral directors first insert the decedent's personal information, including the name, sex, date of death, social security number, age at last birthday, birth date, birthplace, race, current address, usual occupation, educational history, service in the U.S. armed forces, site and address of death, marital status, name of any surviving spouse, parents' names, and informant's name and address. They also include the method and site of body disposition (burial, cremation, donation, or other) and sign the form. The responsible physician must then complete, with or without using an autopsy, his or her sections of the certificate. These include the immediate cause(s) of death; other significant conditions contributing to the death; the manner of death; the date, time, place, and mechanism of any injury; the time of death; the date the death was pronounced; whether the medical examiner was notified; and his or her signature. The death certificate then passes to the responsible local and state government offices, where, based on that document, a burial permit is issued. The death certificate, or at least the information it contains, then goes to the state's bureau of vital statistics and from there to the United States Center for Health Statistics.

Funeral directors often struggle to obtain a physician's signature on a death certificate. In an age of managed-care HMOs and multispecialty clinics, they must not only locate the busy practitioner for a signature, but also identify the correct physician. Survivors cannot bury or otherwise dispose of a corpse until a licensed physician signs a permanent death certificate or a medical examiner signs a temporary death certificate. Medical examiners (or coroners) list the cause of death as "pending" until further laboratory tests determine the actual cause of death. Except in unusual cases, disposition of the remains need not wait for the final autopsy report, which may take weeks to complete.

After the death certificate has been signed, local authorities usually issue a certificate of disposition of remains, also known as a burial or cremation permit. Crematories and cemeteries require this form before they will cremate or bury a body. In some jurisdictions, the form is combined with a transportation permit that allows the movement or shipment of a body.

Only about 12 percent of U.S. physicians receive training in completing death certificates, and less than two-thirds of them do it correctly. Several do not appear to believe that completing death certificates accurately is very important.

Many certificates are meaningless because physicians complete them without knowing the real cause of death. Listing "cardiopulmonary arrest" signifies nothing—everyone's heart and lungs eventually stop. The important point is why? An autopsy is often needed to answer this question. Occasionally, autopsy, pathology, or forensic findings appear after a death certificate has been completed. If it is within three years of the death in many jurisdictions, the original physician-signer need only complete an amended certificate to correct the record.

Disguising deaths from alcoholism, AIDS, and other stigmatizing causes of death on death certificates is widespread. This practice appears to be more common where medical examiners' autopsy reports are part of the public record. For this reason, some states may eliminate the cause of death from publicly recorded death certificates.

Physicians obscure information on some death certificates to protect a family's reputation or income, with listings such as "pneumonia" for an AIDS death or "accidental" for a suicide. Even before the AIDS epidemic, one researcher found that in San Francisco, California, socially unacceptable causes of death frequently were misreported—the most common being alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver, alcoholism, syphilis, homicide, and suicide.

Physicians who complete death certificates in good faith are not liable to criminal action, even if the cause of death is later found to be different from that recorded. Fraudulent completion to obscure a crime or to defraud an insurance company, however, is a felony.

Occasionally, fake death certificates appropriate real people's identities. Such false death certificates are especially distasteful to victims of this fraud who are still alive and whose "death" causes officials to freeze their assets, cancel credit, revoke licenses, and generally disrupt their lives.

Death certificates and other standard legal papers surrounding death normally cost between $1 and $5 each.
http://www.deathreference.com/Da-Em/Death-Certificate.html

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Asedora said:

DI:
I wish to ask you some simple questions. Do you have any kind of experience of working with any documents and numbers?

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Asedora said:

Have you ever seen fraud in your life on a bank cheque for example?

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Asedora said:

And before you post stuff here do you check information you posted or you just copy paste it from hoax websites?

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Asedora said:

I have found a huge discrepancy from very first look at your info . I didn’t have time to read all of it yet.

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Perhaps you should have read it all before jumping to conclusions before replying. This seems to be a habit for yourself.

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ashtanga said:

Michael JOSEPH Jackson????



*Edit...

I looked in my files and found. This is a post from a member of MJJC here that unfortunately I do not remember the username. Sorry, I did not save the link of the discussion, but only the post (text). I do not know if anyone here remembers this post, but it is very important informations. This member was in doubt about the name of Michael. She contacted the Social Security Administration in the United States (she used her name to obtain the information below) and this was their response (in bold) for it (in italic the comments of member):





Hey Everybody, I want everyone to know that I have received a response from Social Security Administration in the United States of America concerning the probability about receiving a new, different Social Security Number due to circumstances while keeping my original one unvoided or undeleted. I used my name instead of Michael Jackson's name for fear that Social Security is under strict confidentiality if I asked if Michael Jackson had at least 2 Social Security Numbers. After receiving this response from Social Security, I would probably say that there is a high chance that he did have in fact at least 2 Social Security Numbers. Here is the response I have received.


"Thank you for contacting the Social Security Administration.

Generally, an individual is assigned only one Social Security number (SSN) which is used to record the individual’s earnings for future benefit purposes and to keep track of benefits paid under that number. However, under certain circumstances, the Social Security Administration (SSA) will assign an individual a new SSN.

For integrity reasons, SSA policy is to cross-refer electronically in our records all SSN’s assigned to an individual. Therefore, when an individual is assigned a new SSN, the original and new SSN will be electronically cross-referred in our records. The level of evidence required to support the assignment of a new SSN depends on the nature of the allegation. Listed below are three situations that could contribute to an individual being assigned a new SSN:

– HARASSMENT: Harassment is the systematic annoyance of an individual through deliberate unprovoked conduct, including threats to or the stalking of an individual, which causes a loss of personal freedom and which causes him or her to fear for his or her life, personal safety, or emotional well-being.

Michael Jackson, being huge, was definitely harassed through stalking and annoyance from individuals of the paparazzi systematically. What I am not so sure about is whether he was annoyed by the paparazzi under deliberate provoked conduct. This is probably a reason why Michael Jackson had a loss of personal freedom and feared for his very own life, safety, and well-being.

– ABUSE: Abuse is the deliberate mistreatment of an individual that causes physical or emotional injury and causes the individual to fear for his or her life, personal safety, or emotional well-being.

Michael Jackson was deliberately mistreated and abused by his father. Also, the drugs given to him by the wrong doctors were also a deliberate act of mistreating the singer with abuse. This is also evidence the Michael feared for his life, safety, and well-being. Even though he made amends with his father, this does not change the fact of what he encountered from his father.

– LIFE ENDANGERMENT: Life endangerment is the exposure of an individual to injury or danger that threatens the individual’s life.

Michael Jackson's life very well could have been endangered from Sony, AEG, and from the people who accused him of child molestation. This probably threatened his life enough.

The best evidence of abuse comes from third parties, such as police, medical facilities, or doctors, and describes the nature and extent of harassment, abuse, or life endangerment. Other evidence may include court restraining orders, letters from shelters, family members, friends, counselors, or others who have knowledge of the domestic violence or abuse. If contacting any of these sources could put you in danger, we will work with you to obtain evidence from safe sources.

As far as evidence goes, it is very likely that Michael Jackson had written statements from medical facilities, doctors, and maybe police stating that he was a victim of the circumstances listed above. Also, Michael might have filed court restraining orders against his father for the mistreatment and abuse from him. Other friends and people who have known him could have also provided written statements to Social Security Administration stating he was a victim of the circumstances above so that Michael Jackson could receive a new Social Security Number while keeping his original one unvoided and undeleted.

Third parties generally get your number when you give it out. Be careful about sharing your number with those who ask for it, even when they provide you with a benefit or service. This is especially important if you obtain a new number to break the link to an abusive past.

Applying for a new number is a big decision. It may impact your ability to interact with federal and state agencies, employers and others. This is because your financial, medical, employment, and other records will be under your former Social Security number and name (if you change your name). If you expect to change your name, we recommend you do so before applying for a new number.

Now, what might be hard to understand is how he got his second Social Security Number under Michael JOSEPH Jackson without legally changing his real, legal name which is Michael JOE Jackson. Here is what I think might have happened: Michael JOE Jackson wanted to protect his real name and his real Social Security Number from identity theft. So, somebody or Michael Jackson filed for him to get a new, different Social Security number given the circumstances he was in under the name Michael JOSEPH Jackson by using the paperwork that granted him his permanent entertainer's name as evidence to say Michael changed his name even though Michael did not legally change his original, real name which is Michael JOE Jackson. So, after mentioning all of this, is that Social Security number on the death certificate the correct one? If Michael Jackson had at least 2 Social Security numbers that have been cross-referred to him electronically in Social Security Records, Michael's kids are definitely going to have quite a bit of a struggle in obtaining Social Security benefits. You can read this information and post your thought if you like.

Note: There are official court documents that list his true name as Michael JOE Jackson. Even Michael JOE Jackson is listed in the BMI songwriters database. Katherine's autobiography mentions her son's name as Michael JOE Jackson. Michael JOSEPH Jackson is probably his permanent entertainer name.



*I hope this informations about the name of Michael help a little.

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Dangerous Incorporated said:

Thanx for all this information. Very informative.

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zpredra5 said:

I don"t know so much about autopsy reports and I am not saying it"s a fake, but one thing really bothers me a lot...
I think that autopsy report SHOULD NOT be out in public for everyone to read it when it is strongly connected to murder investigation and the case has just began. No way. I never heard of something like that in my life.
It should be completely confidential untill the investigation is over and the verdict is made. Am I right ?

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zpredra5 said:

I think that autopsy report SHOULD NOT be out in public for everyone to read it when it is strongly connected to murder investigation and the case has just began. No way. I never heard of something like that in my life.

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Dangerous Incorporated said:

The Death Certificate states embalming took place on 7/7/09 which is the same day as the memorial. I have a hard time believing it took place on that date due to the private viewing the night before and the private service in the morning and the memorial in the morning. When did they have time to embalm him?

Also MJ's DC stated Dept of Health Services on top where as Britney Murphy and Casey Jones' DC state Dept of Public Health:
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0112_casey_j_certificate_wm_color.pdf
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/1229_brittany_murphy_certificate_TMZ.pdf

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